an existance of god or lack of

[Celeste]

Originally Posted by ReibuNeither I nor anyone else can prove a negative of this nature. The simplest solution is to be accepted until evidence of something else is quantified. Very typical of the theist to claim that lack of evidence is not evidence of lacking when in fact that is exactly what it is.

Thank you for answering. The simplest solution for me would differ from yours I believe. After 30 some years of being somewhat of an weak atheist/agnostic, it was life experiences, an NDE, etc. that lead me to see something valid in a higher power. Sometimes life altering experiences open new doors to understanding IMHO.

Here are some examples. Religious teachings that homosexuals are a threat to society. Religiously rationalized attacks on evolution. Discriminatory hiring practices based on religion. The attribution of unwanted behavior to evil forces.

I would have to argue a few of your examples as being discriminatory to only religious individuals or societies. Although I don't embrace organized religion, I don't adjudge those that are religious, nor do I condemn the whole.
Whether one is atheist, religious, or agnostic, homosexuality and hiring preferences are largely individual beliefs/feelings.
If I was ever questioned about my sexual or religious preferences during an interview, the labor board and my lawyer would be hearing about it.

Perhaps you see this as evidence of religions benign nature but are you aware of the violence of Utah’s beginning that was caused by religious forces on both sides of the conflict.

Yes, very much aware of the violence. However, religion had nothing to do with "The Mormon War," sometime known as the "Utah War" or "Buchanan's Blunder." The war arose out of the loss of the postal contract by Brigham Young's express company and President Buchanan's concern that Brigham Young was hell bent on making "Deseret," as Utah was then known, an independent state.

I'm sure you realize that specific ideologies and ethnic conflict are the primary instigators in the majority of all wars. I would consider most religion in the United States to be benign.

[inside the sun]

I accept you perspective and appreciate your decorum. I do not agree with the benign nature of any religion however in deference to you I must acknowledge that religion is usually not the source of ill intent. Thank you for the dialogue.

No thank you, and you're welcome. You learn the most when someone has an different view, and if you actually listen to them and step in their shoes, you learn to see more and open your eyes a little more (not you as in you, but as referring to the universal you, (aka anyone) and mostly referring to myself, i am using myself as an example here, from you, i learned something, and it made me think more, and opened my eyes, so hence, the thank you.

[Rebiu]

Originally Posted by Celeste

Thank you for answering. The simplest solution for me would differ from yours I believe. After 30 some years of being somewhat of an weak atheist/agnostic, it was life experiences, an NDE, etc. that lead me to see something valid in a higher power. Sometimes life altering experiences open new doors to understanding IMHO.

The religious based explanation is never; let me emphasize never the simplest answer to any question.

Originally Posted by Celeste

I would have to argue a few of your examples as being discriminatory to only religious individuals or societies. Although I don't embrace organized religion, I don't adjudge those that are religious, nor do I condemn the whole.
Whether one is atheist, religious, or agnostic, homosexuality and hiring preferences are largely individual beliefs/feelings.

The individual beliefs and feelings are highly influenced by the practitioners of organized religion.

Originally Posted by Celeste

If I was ever questioned about my sexual or religious preferences during an interview, the labor board and my lawyer would be hearing about it.

They are not going to tell you they are discriminating against you.

Originally Posted by Celeste

Yes, very much aware of the violence. However, religion had nothing to do with "The Mormon War," sometime known as the "Utah War" or "Buchanan's Blunder." The war arose out of the loss of the postal contract by Brigham Young's express company and President Buchanan's concern that Brigham Young was hell bent on making "Deseret," as Utah was then known, an independent state.

Is that why Utah had to ban polygamy before it could become a state in 1896. This polygamy issue was used to turn public opinion against the Mormons and their cause. Religion is usually not the source of the conflict it is used as a tool to motivate the followers in another cause, like the effort to put down the nonexistent Mormon rebellion, the crusades, even Hitler used pagan mysticism to shape the ideal of a divine Arian race.

Originally Posted by Celeste

I'm sure you realize that specific ideologies and ethnic conflict are the primary instigators in the majority of all wars. I would consider most religion in the United States to be benign.

The problem is that unfounded faith makes people believe whatever they are told or want to believe at the time.