[Eclogite]

MM,
I think you are well aware that many of your ideas are radical. Indeed, you have commented on the difficulty of gaining acceptance of them from either the masses, or the elites. I think I have even detected a degree of satisfaction on your part that the ideas are controversial.

Given that, you must also be aware that some of your concepts fly in the face of what many would think is good sense. I do not say they are not good sense, only that the majority, by your own admission, seem to think them wrong, warped, delusional, etc., for there have been no floods of adherents rushing to join your crusade.

Does it, then, truly surprise you when you preach (and it is preaching) your more bizarre concepts without any proper justification other than your own self-confident self assessment?

My own reaction on reading how you had raised your children, you may recall, was relief that my own parents had not chosen such a path. What I did not say, but thought very definitely at the time, was this man is guilty of child abuse. Frankly, I was quite sickened by the blend of arrogance and smug self satisfaction you evinced when talking of your parenting techniques. [Not to mention the pure stupidity of some of the concepts: but in that regard you do not have a monopoly.]

Why am I even raising this? Two reasons:

I wish to offer Boerseun moral support for taking a moral position even though it may be harmful to him.

I wish to make you aware of the depth of amazement, concern, dumbfoundedness, distaste, confusion, etc that your bizarre notions evoke in at least two of us on this site. I suspect we are not alone.

If you sincerely wish to change the world for the better you need to pay more heed to the reactions your concepts engender. That is an absolute.

I would also suggest the first place to change it for the better is in your own psyche. But that is merely an opinion.

[TheBigDog]

MagnetMan, elloquence is not a substitute for facts. Vernon Howell was an elloquent speaker and had people who he pointed to as being examples of the truth of his unorthodoxed ways. As much as you believe in what you saying here, and you articulate it quite elloquently, it comes up far short of being convincing as the only logical path into the future.

Hypothetical: Your vision of the future has come into being. There has been a majority mass conciousness change of the imperitive to share instead of want. We are a majority of planetary stewards. How do you deal with the dissodents? What is your solution to the minority who are not prepared to willingly comply with the new world order?

Bill

[MoonBaby]

I’ve registered on this forum quite some time ago, though I never posted, this is my first. I’m MagnetMan’s daughter, my name is Cat and I am 20 years old.
As one can imagine I am compelled to respond to this disgraceful attack on our family. I understand the usual reactionary response to a new and unfamiliar concept… but wow. In the face of testimony on the results of an alternate upbringing, you absolutely disregard and slander all that has been said and make extreme accusations of the exact opposite of what has been stated. By extreme I mean completely general blanket statements about something you know nothing about. Not to mention interpreting things with what seems like a deliberately block-headed approach of not reading between the lines and taking things out of context. My understanding of what a scientist is supposed to represent is thrown into jeopardy here. Not reading or writing before puberty does not equate ignorance. What it does do is keep ones mind open to a wealth of oral-based storytelling of history and mythology. Do you have any idea of how much the mind and memory is stimulated and strengthened by not leaning on script-based information? Practice of practical mental math at a young age during arts and crafts assignments and at any time during my average day allowed me to pick up written mathematical equations a lot faster and more completely. Despite your word for it, reading comprehension has always been my best subject at which my test scores were in the top 1% percentile of the nation. Both my younger brother and sister have written 300 plus page novels, and also test well above average. And awareness of cause and effect in the universe is something that I consider to be an admirable human quality. As for shaving my head and going up into the mountains, that is an experience I wouldn’t trade for anything. It has given me a wealth of self-reliance and self-esteem and is something that I am proud to share with my many friends and acquaintances …. socially maladapted as I am. Those lonely hours up in the mountains, short as they were, gave me a deep appreciation for the meaning of family and company and the comforts of the technology of home. Finally, I am also the mother of the grandchild that that you are so concerned about. There is no way I would bring him up any other way than I was. I am having a bit of difficulty repressing all that I would really like to say, but I have too much respect for a value called good manners.

Originally Posted by Boerseun

That a threat? What the hell is wrong with you?

That’s not a threat, it’s a promise. And if my Dad doesn’t wring your scrawny neck one fine day, I will. Remember I have seven siblings who are just as outraged as I am, not to mention our mom! You’ve been warned.

[TheBigDog]

Originally Posted by MoonBaby

I’ve registered on this forum quite some time ago, though I never posted, this is my first. I’m MagnetMan’s daughter, my name is Cat and I am 20 years old.

...

That’s not a threat, it’s a promise. And if my Dad doesn’t wring your scrawny neck one fine day, I will. Remember I have seven siblings who are just as outraged as I am, not to mention our mom! You’ve been warned.

Is this a sample of how we will move peacefully into the new world order?

Bill

[Boerseun]

Hi Moonbaby, and pleased to make your acquaintance.

Although you might not see it, your father did you a great disservice in the way he brought you up.

You are now twenty. Which means you've been reading for about five/six years, now. When I was twenty, I've been reading for about fifteen. The sheer volume of books written in the English language is such that in order to get any idea of the Western culture your father so easily discounts, not a single day can be wasted not reading.

Tell me, where did you grow up? Did you have any friends growing up? Friends your own age? And I don't mean family, I mean people from outside your home, people with different, new and fresh ideas? At least ideas not the same as yours, in order to stir debate? Kids your age didn't frown upon your illiteracy? Were you seen as an outcast?

The members of the social regime your father is trying to dislodge with his irrational (and, quite frankly, arrogantly ignorant) philosophy will forever have an advantage over you in terms of their plain knowledge of basically everything. You see, it's simple: It'll take you ten years to make up for lost reading time, by which those very same people (your peers) have also gained another ten years' reading. You will never catch up. And this reading includes history, philosophy, politics, science, quite simply everything. You, of course, won't realise this, because you're subjectively involved.

Threatening me with physical violence won't improve neither your nor your father's case here, either.

Just think carefully before you do your own kids such a disservice. Denying your kids the basics of peer-level education such as reading and writing is immoral, and, won't you believe it, illegal in most Western countries.

[MagnetMan]

Originally Posted by TheBigDog

Is this a sample of how we will move peacefully into the new world order?

Bill

My usually mild-mannered family has surely got hot under the collar on this one. I expect all of them will have something more to add.
In the new world order we expect to find people with minds open to new ideas, a deeper sense of decency and a greater sense of humor.
As to my not being convincing enough about how I view things to come. Historically, new ideas take generations to seat themselves. Resistence, such as I am experiencing, is oxiomatic. It comes with the territory.
As to discontents. I have faith in human nature. Thy will come around eventually. Truth ultimately prevails.

[Eclogite]

Originally Posted by MagnetMan

Resistence, such as I am experiencing, is oxiomatic. .

Most likely because it is resistance to a load of bull.

TheBigDog: I have developed considerable respect for you based upon the posts of yours I have read on several topics. (Here comes the other shoe....)

However, I cannot accept that MM writes eloquently. Eloquence is more than simply the juxtaposition of flowery phrases, erudite references and clever expressions. It also requires cogency, delivered through coherent structure and clarity of expression. Without these it is a victory of form over substance. I fear MM's writings fall into this category.

[HydrogenBond]

From what I read intelligent design is often equated with God but it can also be looked at in terms of logical steps driving evolution rather than evolution being due to the randomness of chance. The best examples are in chemistry. When nuclear fusion begin in the universe and higher atoms were created, the reaction of hydrogen and oxygen did not go through a random selective evolution to make water. Water was always the logical consequence due to the laws of nature. If new star formed and made oxygen that was escaping into space with some of its hydrogen, I predict that water H2O will form and not H5O or HO3. This chemical design was already set when atoms formed even before the chemical step was reached. It seems reasonable that maybe there is already a logical order to events, like DNA being the basis for genetic material, due to the nature of the fixed laws chemistry and physics. RNA also works, but beyond these there is no random distribution of other genetic types materials (actual examples) since this was not the designed order of things.

[MoonBaby]

Originally Posted by Boerseun

Hi Moonbaby, and pleased to make your acquaintance.

I’m not too sure I am pleased to make yours. But I am willing to give you a chance to make amends for what you have said about me and my family.

Although you might not see it, your father did you a great disservice in the way he brought you up.

That may be so, but from my present position I am very pleased to have grown up in such a completely unique way. Without knowing me, or how I turned out, how can you make such a prejorative statement? How do you know I haven’t turned out to be the most charming gift to the planet since bubblegum?

You are now twenty. Which means you've been reading for about five/six years, now. When I was twenty, I've been reading for about fifteen. The sheer volume of books written in the English language is such that in order to get any idea of the Western culture your father so easily discounts, not a single day can be wasted not reading.

I’ve actually been reading since eleven (puberty started for me then) I can hardly imagine what great tomes I missed out on before then. What were you reading at five? War and Peace? Crime and Punishment? If so, did you understand the underlying rationale? Anybody can read early. Early reading is pure indoctrination… you haven’t enough life experience to qualify what it is you are reading. Don’t you see that you have missed the whole point? Delayed reading was not to keep me away from all the wonderful literature to be read, but to give me an appreciation of words and their meanings and an ability to form an opinion on what I was reading. You are talking about sheer quantity… my dad was talking about quality.

Tell me, where did you grow up? Did you have any friends growing up? Friends your own age? And I don't mean family, I mean people from outside your home, people with different, new and fresh ideas? At least ideas not the same as yours, in order to stir debate? Kids your age didn't frown upon your illiteracy? Were you seen as an outcast?

First of all my family are my best friends. I was born and raised for the first seven years of my life in a little place called Hollywood. I had many friends growing up in the city, and they are still my good friends all these years later despite our remote location. They come to visit and I have the unique perspective that distance has given me. No I have never been an outcast. While different, people who are open-minded - the only kind that I am willing to associate with - have never seen me as a freak.

The members of the social regime your father is trying to dislodge with his irrational (and, quite frankly, arrogantly ignorant) philosophy will forever have an advantage over you in terms of their plain knowledge of basically everything. You see, it's simple: It'll take you ten years to make up for lost reading time, by which those very same people (your peers) have also gained another ten years' reading. You will never catch up. And this reading includes history, philosophy, politics, science, quite simply everything. You, of course, won't realise this, because you're subjectively involved.

Most people on the planet hardly read heavy books… intellectuals remain a rare breed. What am I supposed to catch up to? I revere history, and by unearthing its pre-literate origins my dad has given me the best perspective on how and why literature developed that I have yet to find in any other contemporary analysis of intellectual development. This fundamental understanding puts me ahead of the curve, and makes me more careful of the books I choose to read (and author myself) in the future.

Threatening me with physical violence won't improve neither your nor your father's case here, either.

I weigh 115, and if you’re scared of me you should be ashamed of yourself. You need to lighten up.

Just think carefully before you do your own kids such a disservice. Denying your kids the basics of peer-level education such as reading and writing is immoral, and, won't you believe it, illegal in most Western countries.

I’ll grant you that is a problem, but what is the alternative? There is no point to going to Rome, it became decadent an age ago... Our only hope is to rectify it by rebuilding Rome here in the pristine uncontaminated environment of this high desert valley and showing it what life can be like when one really enjoys the simple things in life and not just talk about it. In the meantime, within the warmth and company of our (large) family group, my child has a chance to grow up inside the most elegant, intellectual, artistic, humorous, daring, courageous, considerate and spiritual environment any mother could ever wish for. You should see the palace we have built in this wilderness. It is fully connected to the world through the internet and satellite without suffering from the polluted residue. My sons lungs, mind, heart and soul are clean, thank god, and will remain so.

[TheBigDog]

Originally Posted by MagnetMan

My usually mild-mannered family has surely got hot under the collar on this one. I expect all of them will have something more to add.

I look forward to hearing from each of them.

Originally Posted by MagnetMan

In the new world order we expect to find people with minds open to new ideas, a deeper sense of decency and a greater sense of humor.

Is "minds open to new ideas" exclusive to your ideas? I have seen no evidence that your own mind is open to any other ideas. You have summarily rejected all ideas out of line with your own that have been brought here.

Originally Posted by MagnetMan

As to my not being convincing enough about how I view things to come. Historically, new ideas take generations to seat themselves. Resistence, such as I am experiencing, is oxiomatic. It comes with the territory.

You flatter yourself. You have no new ideas. You are a communist. Your idea is communism. You are evasive as hell about it, but that is your idea. It has failed and will fail. You sprinkle it with your own bizzar version of history and wizards and natural law. You emphasize your argument by seeking sympathy or pity for your own struggles in the past, as a distraction from having nothing new being offered. It may be working for you on the compound in the desert where you are isolated enough from society, and manage to avoid participation with those who believe otherwise. You predicted societal evolution is based upon the fact that people will eventually have no personal interests anymore and give themselves totally to the will of society - and you base that on your understanding and faith in human nature. Why? Because a bushkid shared candy with his family? You have written a book, that from what I have read is about how ancient wizards from before the bronze age who were masters of the long lost science of atomic alchemy have secrets they are about to spring on us because, due to our entry into the atomic age, we are mature enough as a society to accept them now. But I only know that because I have gone and read your writings on your sites. I have looked into what the hell you might be saying because you never actually say anything here. Why are you so reluctant to share your ideas in these forums?

Originally Posted by MagnetMan

As to discontents. I have faith in human nature. Thy will come around eventually. Truth ultimately prevails.

This is a chicken-shit bull-shit copout of an onswer that typifies your contribution to these threads. The vast majority of human history is based upon beliefs that your new world order would deem to be lies, and you just stay blissfully distant from that bold fact. You claim that the core values of humans are going to change, to evolve, but you cannot say why other than that you predict it as an evolutionary imperative. That is just not an adequate explanation. So I will try one more time.

Originally Posted by TheBigDog

Hypothetical: Your vision of the future has come into being. There has been a majority mass conciousness change of the imperitive to share instead of want. We are a majority of planetary stewards. How do you deal with the dissodents? What is your solution to the minority who are not prepared to willingly comply with the new world order?

And try answering the question this time.

Bill