[Eclogite]

FRIPRO, may I apologise for crediting you with a greater grasp of your subject matter than you actually have. That led me to post a very truncated version of a simple, yet elegant hypothesis, which seemed to have parallels with your own. I am sorry I was unable to convey this possibly important concept to you.

The notion is that God is an emergent property. Just as order and structure and complexity, in the form of galaxies and planetary systems, emerged from chaos and simple physical laws; just as prebiotic chemistry, then life, emerged from random chemical reactions and simple combinatory principles; just as more complex life forms and life systems emerged from this cornucopia of a biosphere; just as self awareness - consciousness - emerged from the complexity of the 'higher' life forms;so, in the far future, God may emerge from the complexity and the as yet unheralded emergent properties to come. Then God, recursively, with the emergent power (omnipotent) motivated by knowledge (ominscient) creates our Universe in the past.

Still, your right. It's just an idea. Silly really.

[FRIPRO]

Originally Posted by Eclogite

FRIPRO, may I apologise for crediting you with a greater grasp of your subject matter than you actually have. That led me to post a very truncated version of a simple, yet elegant hypothesis, which seemed to have parallels with your own. I am sorry I was unable to convey this possibly important concept to you.

The notion is that God is an emergent property. Just as order and structure and complexity, in the form of galaxies and planetary systems, emerged from chaos and simple physical laws; just as prebiotic chemistry, then life, emerged from random chemical reactions and simple combinatory principles; just as more complex life forms and life systems emerged from this cornucopia of a biosphere; just as self awareness - consciousness - emerged from the complexity of the 'higher' life forms;so, in the far future, God may emerge from the complexity and the as yet unheralded emergent properties to come. Then God, recursively, with the emergent power (omnipotent) motivated by knowledge (ominscient) creates our Universe in the past.

Still, your right. It's just an idea. Silly really.

THANK YOU for your coments: Yes I do agree with your your "elegant hypothesis", except for the god part. Being brought up Catholic you see I have been exposed to much religion in school etc. But as my knowledge of the Universe increased I have had to think often about the existance of God. It still is an important concept and I guess I am not yet sure if one can equate god to the Universe or not? So in my theory of UNIVERSE's INTELLIGENT DESIGN by EVOLUTION (UIDE)© HUMANOIDS, and THE UNIVERSE, I leave it to the reader!

FRIPRO

[Eclogite]

I think you may still be missing the central point within this conjecture, FRIPRO. God does not currently exist. God is an emergent property who will arise out of the evolution of life, consciousness and other properties yet to emerge.

Once he has arisen, and his powers have evolved to omnipotence, he is then in a position to go back in time and create the Universe from nothing: a true bootstrap creator.

All highly speculative, without an ounce of evidence that I can think of, but intriguing as a thought. Note that this view, if it reflected reality, would render your eternal Universe invalid.

[arkain101]

I too was thinking of something..

Some science / theory seems to require the same kind of 'faith' to 'believe' than it does to seem to require to believe there is god and such.
Whats the difference in having faith in one or the other that is not proved.
Yes, as of now it seems just science can be tested but untill we can test head on certain theory arent we just following a lack there of god faith that says I beleive the universe boomed out of no where, for no reason in a chaos like randomness purpose.?

[FRIPRO]

Originally Posted by Eclogite

I think you may still be missing the central point within this conjecture, FRIPRO. God does not currently exist. God is an emergent property who will arise out of the evolution of life, consciousness and other properties yet to emerge.

Once he has arisen, and his powers have evolved to omnipotence, he is then in a position to go back in time and create the Universe from nothing: a true bootstrap creator.

All highly speculative, without an ounce of evidence that I can think of, but intriguing as a thought. Note that this view, if it reflected reality, would render your eternal Universe invalid.

I agree with the first though string,that some peoples (humans) believe that God does not exist, but I assure you because of the fact that you are here now, proves beyond doubt that the universe does exist now! An I can asure you that no one, including a god, can go back in time.

The Universe always was and always will be. It is a living organism including the Earth. This living organism created Earth and all its species through evolution. Therefore the UIDE theory is valid,

All of the Earths history, past and present, point to and eternal Universe. One must read my book Universe's Intelligent Design by Evolution! (UIDE) a complete pre-released manuscript, in the works, E Book by FRIPRO.com before making your statement above.

Your speculative paragraph above (Sounds like and April Fool Joke) is it?

[FRIPRO]

Originally Posted by arkain101

I too was thinking of something..

Some science / theory seems to require the same kind of 'faith' to 'believe' than it does to seem to require to believe there is god and such.
Whats the difference in having faith in one or the other that is not proved.
Yes, as of now it seems just science can be tested but untill we can test head on certain theory arent we just following a lack there of god faith that says I beleive the universe boomed out of no where, for no reason in a chaos like randomness purpose.?

So friend the Universe did not boomed out of no where, (It always was here and will alway even if it could try to destroy itself , its residue would still be here == thus the Universe is eternal. Man invented faith, and many still make a living preaching it! Refer to other parts of this subject Universe's Intelligent Design by Evolution! (UIDE) a complete pre-released manuscript, in the works, E Booked -- google fripro and look for it!

[arkain101]

Yah I agree there.. no worries.

Although I am not so sure your on to new original thoughts. Giver shit though.

[Eclogite]

I am doing rather a poor job of communicating ideas to you with clarity and lack of ambiguity. Again, accept my apologies for that.

Originally Posted by FRIPRO

I agree with the first thought string,that some peoples (humans) believe that God does not exist

I am not stating that God does not exist. And, so we are clear on this, neither am I stating he does exist. I am quite definitively agnostic on the matter. I am stating, for the purposes of my conjecture, that God does not currently exist. It is one of the premises on which the conjecture is based.

Originally Posted by FRIPRO

but I assure you because of the fact that you are here now, proves beyond doubt that the universe does exist now!

I do not deny it. I have not denied it. I very much doubt I shall ever deny it. What made you think I had any reservations on this point?

Originally Posted by FRIPRO

An I can asure you that no one, including a god, can go back in time.

I hope you will not be offended if I tell you that this assurance, in common with several others, does nothing to convince me. Time travel is not automatically forbidden by the Laws of Physics, as we presently understand them. I shall retain an open mind on this point.

FRIPRO The Universe always was and always will be. Supposition without evidential basis.
FRIPRO It is a living organism including the Earth. Supposition without evidential basis, complicated by use (possibly abuse) of undefined terms.
FRIPRO This living organism created Earth and all its species through evolution. Supposition without evidential basis, complicated by use (possibly abuse) of undefined terms.
FRIPRO Therefore the UIDE theory is valid, Invalid conclusion, as it is based upon mere supposition.

Originally Posted by FRIPRO

Your speculative paragraph above (Sounds like and April Fool Joke) is it?

Absolutely not. It is not my idea, but has been proposed as a serious possibility, although I do not recall the author(s). I offered it up for consideration because it has certain features in common with your speculation.


Earlier I also failed to communicate clearly another unresolved ambiguity of your speculation. You repeatedly talk about the evolution of the Universe. This implies (very strongly) advances in the complexity and the level of life forms within the Universe over time. Would you agree that this is so?

[FRIPRO]

Originally Posted by Eclogite

I am doing rather a poor job of communicating ideas to you with clarity and lack of ambiguity. Again, accept my apologies for that.

I am not stating that God does not exist. And, so we are clear on this, neither am I stating he does exist. I am quite definitively agnostic on the matter. I am stating, for the purposes of my conjecture, that God does not currently exist. It is one of the premises on which the conjecture is based.

I do not deny it. I have not denied it. I very much doubt I shall ever deny it. What made you think I had any reservations on this point?
I hope you will not be offended if I tell you that this assurance, in common with several others, does nothing to convince me. Time travel is not automatically forbidden by the Laws of Physics, as we presently understand them. I shall retain an open mind on this point.

FRIPRO The Universe always was and always will be. Supposition without evidential basis.

You can not create anything out of nothing! The fact the Universe is here now,and is changing (we see through the Hubble telescope, and the rovers on Mars) is evidence that it away was! As to

"Aways will be" we can only speculate -- but if it were to come to an end where would the matter go that ended? (Therefore it is evidence that it will always be (but change its form (evolve))

FRIPRO It is a living organism including the Earth. Supposition without evidential basis, complicated by use (possibly abuse) of undefined terms.

If one studied evolution theory (DARWIN) One can not help but see the inter relationship between all living species on the Earth including, man, animals, virus, bacteria, birds, the oceans,the sun, moon and the atmosphere etc. They are all inter realted-- therefore one giant organism -- thus the evidence is overwelming.


FRIPRO This living organism created Earth and all its species through evolution. Supposition without evidential basis, complicated by use (possibly abuse) of undefined terms.

Well the evidence is there to see, the Earth was created by the Universe's evolution, about 4 billion years ago.

FRIPRO Therefore the UIDE theory is valid, Invalid conclusion, as it is based upon mere supposition.

If you read the complete theory you might see it differently. It is located on FRIPRO (search on GOOGLE) and click on UNIVERSE's INTELLIGENT DESIGN by EVOLUTION (UIDE)© (Note HSF censors web site names!

Absolutely not. It is not my idea, but has been proposed as a serious possibility, although I do not recall the author(s). I offered it up for consideration because it has certain features in common with your speculation.


Earlier I also failed to communicate clearly another unresolved ambiguity of your speculation. You repeatedly talk about the evolution of the Universe. This implies (very strongly) advances in the complexity and the level of life forms within the Universe over time. Would you agree that this is so?

With respect to your last coment (Evolution of the Universe) I agree with this , as we all know that the Earth is evolving over time. Some species are exstink others are evolving, including man. this is evidence, of the Universe is evolving?

With respect to your coment:
I am quite definitively agnostic on the matter. I am stating, for the purposes of my conjecture, that God does not..... currently exist. The UIDE theory agress with you!

With respect to your coment:Time travel is not automatically forbidden by the Laws of Physics, as we presently understand them. I shall retain an open mind on this point. ...
I agree--The UIDE theory say that it is possible to travel at a speed faster than light ( and can be proven by test using the Cerenkov Light test.) So we could go back in Universe time -- but not Earth history time! We could for example catch up with our TV signals which have been traveling for 69 light years into space if we traveled say 100 Cerenkov light years! FRIPRO

[FRIPRO]

Originally Posted by Eclogite

I am doing rather a poor job of communicating ideas to you with clarity and lack of ambiguity. Again, accept my apologies for that.

I am not stating that God does not exist. And, so we are clear on this, neither am I stating he does exist. I am quite definitively agnostic on the matter. I am stating, for the purposes of my conjecture, that God does not currently exist. It is one of the premises on which the conjecture is based.

I do not deny it. I have not denied it. I very much doubt I shall ever deny it. What made you think I had any reservations on this point?
I hope you will not be offended if I tell you that this assurance, in common with several others, does nothing to convince me. Time travel is not automatically forbidden by the Laws of Physics, as we presently understand them. I shall retain an open mind on this point.

FRIPRO The Universe always was and always will be. Supposition without evidential basis.

You can not create anything out of nothing! The fact the Universe is here now,and is changing (we see through the Hubble telescope, and the rovers on Mars) is evidence that it away was! As to:

"Aways will be" we can only speculate -- but if it were to come to an end where would the matter go that ended? (Therefore it is evidence that it will always be (but change its form (evolve))

FRIPRO It is a living organism including the Earth. Supposition without evidential basis, complicated by use (possibly abuse) of undefined terms.

If one studied evolution theory (DARWIN) One can not help but see the inter relationship between all living species on the Earth including, man, animals, virus, bacteria, birds, the oceans,the sun, moon and the atmosphere etc. They are all inter releated-- therefore one giant organism -- thus the evidence is overwelming.


FRIPRO This living organism created Earth and all its species through evolution. Supposition without evidential basis, complicated by use (possibly abuse) of undefined terms.

Well the evidence is there to see, the Earth was created by the Universe's evolution, about 4 billion years ago.

FRIPRO Therefore the UIDE theory is valid, Invalid conclusion, as it is based upon mere supposition.

If you read the complete theory you might see it differently. It is located on FRIPRO (search on GOOGLE) and click on UNIVERSE's INTELLIGENT DESIGN by EVOLUTION (UIDE)© (Note HSF censors web site names!)

Absolutely not. It is not my idea, but has been proposed as a serious possibility, although I do not recall the author(s). I offered it up for consideration because it has certain features in common with your speculation.


Earlier I also failed to communicate clearly another unresolved ambiguity of your speculation. You repeatedly talk about the evolution of the Universe. This implies (very strongly) advances in the complexity and the level of life forms within the Universe over time. Would you agree that this is so?

With respect to your last coment (Evolution of the Universe): I agree with this , as we all know that the Earth is evolving over time. Some species are extinct others are evolving, including man. This is evidence, of the Universe is evolving?

With respect to your coment:
I am quite definitively agnostic on the matter. I am stating, for the purposes of my conjecture, that God does not..... currently exist. The UIDE theory agrees with you!

With respect to your coment:Time travel is not automatically forbidden by the Laws of Physics, as we presently understand them. I shall retain an open mind on this point. ...
I agree--The UIDE theory say that it is possible to travel at a speed faster than light ( and can be proven by test using the Cerenkov Light test.) So we could go back in Universe time -- but not Earth history time! We could for example catch up with our TV signals which have been traveling for 69 light years into space if we traveled say 100 Cerenkov light years! FRIPRO