Bible is word of God ...

[sebbysteiny]

Originally Posted by cwes99_03

Oh, you did. Well, will you please fill my request to post where this conclusion comes from. I have never in my life heard a church give the official position that "the old testiment is the exact word of God as dictated to Moses at Mount Sinai."

The reason you have never heard this is because the church really doesn't care about going into the old-testiment in that detail. Thus vicars are tought a quick and easy version of the old-testiment.

However, I have asked questions to both Jewish and Christian religous leaders. All Jewish leaders believe (officially) that it was a dictation by god. At first I thought that Christians believe something fundamentally different, until I saw a program in which high ranking Christian leaders acknowledged that it was, like the Jewish version also a dictation by God. However, you have to get high high high, like an eagle, before you see this.

[KickAssClown]

Indeed, it is the understanding I came to.

Moses, God & "I AM" Back to Spiritual Writings

Then Moses said to God, "Indeed, when I come to the children of Israel and say to
them, 'The God of your fathers has sent me to you,' and they say to me, 'What is His
name?' what shall I say to them?"

And God said to Moses, "I AM who I AM." And He said, "Thus you shall say to the
children of Israel, 'I AM has sent me to you.'"

Moreover God said to Moses, "Thus you shall say to the children of Israel: 'The Lord
God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob,
has sent me to you. This is my name forever, and this is my memorial to all
generations.'" -Exodus 3:15

Recently, I was listening to a nationally-syndicated, am radio, talk-show host express
his opinion regarding the above scripture. I must say that I was astonished at his
interpretation. Let me try and paraphrase his thoughts:

God's name is "I AM, " and that name means power! Many today take God's name
in vain by using "curse" (cursing yourself) words such as, "I AM worthless; I AM
hopeless; I AM powerless." You create what you believe and speak, so why not
create great things. Speak, "I AM worthy; I AM holy; I AM blessed!"

As I was thinking about the radio host's words, I could not help but think about Moses
hearing God. Religion always paints the picture of God being an old man with a
beard on a throne speaking down to a shuddering Moses. But, where did God
speak this message to Moses? Was God visible before him? No, Moses heard
God from within himself. So, when God said, "Tell them I AM sent you," He meant
Moses was operating from the power within himself by knowing and being one with
God. Moses just simply had to hear it and be it. You might say that Moses sent his
own self in authority by following this truth within his heart.

It is interesting how Jesus spoke in the very same manner. He said in John's gospel,
"I AM the bread of life. I AM the gate. I AM the good shepherd. I AM the way. I AM
the light. I AM the true vine." The "I AM" Jesus spoke of is the same "I AM" that sent
Moses in power to Egypt. It is the "I AM who I AM," or I AM what I BELIEVE AND
FOLLOW.
You have been given the power to create. Socrates is quoted as saying, "Know
thyself." That is a very deep truth. Are you using the power within you to create a
world of suffering, lack and loss, or are you using the same power within to create
blessings, joy and peace. Examine your heart and voice. What are you speaking
daily? What you are speaking is creating the world around you...the seen & the
unseen.

God told moses the laws of God, and he sent moses on to teach the others the word of god, handed to him from I am.

[sebbysteiny]

Originally Posted by KickassClown

You made some interesting points
I AM not sure that the part above is suggests Jesus is god, since by that argument, I AM I AM

[KickAssClown]

Indeed, it is one of the reasons I picked that as something to put here. Often enough people miss what is right in front of them, not for a lack of trying, but simply for a type of blindness, one which can be treated by those who push themselves to see more, or to see clearer.

I am that I am. That You are I am, means to me that should I wish you ill, I wish I am ill. I do not wish myself ill, so I likewise do not wish it of you.

Beautiful feed back loop.

[HydrogenBond]

If the bible is the word of God, it was presented to the masses via middlemen called prophets. The prophets were part of their generation with one foot in human time and the other foot in Divine time. The result is that many things contained in then temporal word of God, that were approproiate at one time in history, may not be appropriate in a future time.

For example, animal scrifices and burnt offerings were the law during the time of Moses. They would butcher cattle, sheep, etc. and burn them in the fire. This was real sacrifice to God without any recycle of wealth. This is no longer in practiced because times have changed. We neither have animal sacrifices and those who do are called Satanic. Nor do we make a real sacrifice to God but use the sacifice of the masses to pad the coffers of the spiritual leaders.

Another example, is that Christ's sacrifice did away with law for righteousness. The righteous man shall live by faith and not law. The ten commandments were replaced by the word of God via Christ with only two commandments; Love God and love they neighbor. Yet man regressed back to the obsolete version of the word of God because they mistakenly think that living water can only be carved in stone.

[InfiniteNow]

Originally Posted by sebbysteiny

The reason you have never heard this is because the church really doesn't care about going into the old-testiment in that detail.

Of course the church doesn't care about going into the OT in that detail. It's a building, made of bricks and stone and mortar... A much better question would be what the members of a particular denomination of a church (aka religion) believe, and on what their leaders/hierarchy request they focus their care. :

[cwes99_03]

I've family that are Jewish. Which particular portion, I am not sure, except I'm sure that they aren't Orthodox.

Speaking as a christian, I have been around many religions growing up including Catholic, Lutheran, Methodist, Apastolic, Dutch Reform, Baptist, etc. and non of them believe that God wrote down the words of the old testament and gave them to Moses or to any other prophet/person. Only the case of the two stone tablets is recorded in the Bible as God directly (via an angel?) composing something and giving it to Moses.
Now several scriptures do cite a direct quotation of God being written down by the prophet, but this does not mean that God wrote it but "inspired" it. After all that is the word chosen by numerous translators of the Bible as to how the scriptures (both old and new testament) were handed down.
Inspired means that a human did the literal writing, using words and a language that the person himself knew, but that God would not allow the writer to make any mistakes and would guide his thoughts. Thus we account for the differences in writing styles, as each writer was from a different background.

KAC, as far as the I AM and whether or not there is a triad godhead in the form prognosticated as the Trinity, that might be a subject for a different thread.

[cwes99_03]

HydrogenBond, perhaps your post on the value of animal sacrifices and the usefulness of the law according to the scriptures might also be a viable topic on another thread. I'm not suggesting just going off on a bunch of suppositions, but actually seeing what the scriptures say and getting input from the group.

[HydrogenBond]

I was working under the assumption that the bible is the word of God. But like educating children the word changed with the maturity of humanity. To teach a child the atom is like planets orbiting the sun is not technically correct but it is a good way to prime the child's brain for the future.

The comment about Christ summarizing the law, as love God and love your neighbor, was a more advanced word of God. Most people are still using the earlier words of God and don't seem to realize that this was superseded by something more advanced.

I see the word of God like the tree of life there is old wood from the past that was alive at one time, and new branches, fruit, and leaves for each new generation. The live part of the tree of life may be a function of our evolving interpretation, mediated through the spirit of god.

The tree of knowledge of good and evil is the forbidden tree (law) yet it is typically the preferred tree producing the same wormy fruit year after year. People continue to eat of it thinking the outcome will be different.

Romans 5:13 For until the law sin was in the world; but sin is not inputed when there is not law.

Galatians 5:1 It was for freedom that Christ set us free, therefore keep standing firm and do not be subject again to a yoke of slavery.

Cor. I 10:23 All things are lawful, but not all thing are profitable. All things are lawful,but not all things edify.

Romans 3:20 Because by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified in his sight, for through the law comes the knowledge of sin.

Romans 6:14 For sin shall not be a master over you, for you are not under law but under grace.

Cor II 3:6 Who also made us adequit as servants of a new covenant, not of the letter, but of the spirit, for the letter kills but the Spirit gives life

Cor II 3:3 Written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the Living God, not on tablets of stone, but on tablets of human hearts

Cor II 1:18-19 But as God is faithful, our word to you is not yes and no. Fo rthe Son of God, Jesus Christ, whi was preached among you by us-byu me and Silvanus and Timothy-was not yes and no (law) but yes in him.

[CerebralEcstasy]

[quote]

Originally Posted by Edella

I don't think so.I certainly could be wrong,and would examine any new evidence gladly.But as I've said before,the attributes ascribed to the Lord of the Bible and His actions don't add up for me.I am convinced an all loving God would not be so cruel:Exodus 12:29,Numbers 15:32-36,etc.

The account of which you speak cannot be adequately discussed without a thorough examination of the scriptures which lead up to the situation spoke of in Exodus 12:29 - Where all the first born of egypt was killed.

Exodus 7:1 - is really the beginning of this whole ordeal. Where God sends 10 plagues to Egypt. Each plague has been alluded to being an attack against a god that was being worshipped in Egypt at the time by everyone but the Hebrews.

It offered the people within Egypt the chance to see just who was a God worthy of exclusive devotion - the first few plagues were copied by Pharoah's sorcerers, but as time went on, we see that they lacked the ability to stop some of the scourage that had come upon them.

Each time Pharoah was told what would happen, and each time he refused to answer the one simple request that Moses and Aaron had made at God's behest. Let my people go. He even reneged on his own word, saying he would let them go, only to change his mind as soon as the plague had stopped.

To me this says that God used Pharoah's hard heartedness to his own advantage. To show his people that the god's they might have become familiar with while under servitude to the Egyptians, weren't capable of offering the deliverance only he could.

You should also note that when they were finally set free, a number of Egyptians who witnessed these occurences - went with them!!!!

So while you see this as an act of cruelty. I see something different. I see that each time fair warning was given. I see that there were not one but 10 chances for pharoah to do as was requested of him. Yet he was obstinant.

For want of a better current analogy - a patient goes into the doctor, he is told by his doctor that he must quit smoking not once, but 10 times or something bad will happen to him. Man refuses to do so, and ends up dying of lung cancer. Is this cruelty on the part of the doctor?

I hope you see the connection I'm trying to make here.

As for my having made up my mind previous to examining the scriptures, I would have to say no. Simply because I was always questioning whether this or that could be plausible.

Over the course of time though, I have seen that there is some very wise counsel contained within the pages - even though some might think otherwise. I've also found that when I apply bible standards in my life, those around me, as well as myself benefit greatly from it.

One small example. Colossians 3:8 talks about putting away all screaming and abusive speech. Until I started applying this principle, I for all explanatory purposes was a bitch. My ex-husband can vouch for this

Anyhow.....after consideration of the scriptures I realized that there might be a better way of dealing with people, and issues without being a bitch. It taught me to leave others with dignity, and to respect their viewpoints. In the past....... not a chance. I honestly can say I don't know where else I would have learned this - since I obviously hadn't in the 25-27 years previous.