Do we roll the dice with salvation?

[stanleyg]

Do we roll the dice with salvation and wager that salvation is a myth or do we play it safe to cast our lots on Christ? If we were to roll and lose, then the wager would be extremely costly. Here, take the dice! It's your roll.

[InfiniteNow]

Do I get 72 virgins if I roll snake eyes? What happens if I roll 11?

[Pyrotex]

Originally Posted by stanleyg

Do we roll the dice with salvation and wager that salvation is a myth or do we play it safe to cast our lots on Christ? If we were to roll and lose, then the wager would be extremely costly. Here, take the dice! It's your roll.

This is just DeCarte's Wager. It's been around for at least 300 years.

And the conclusion that it is critically flawed has been around nearly as long.

The wager only offers two selections. This is an arbitrary and unwarranted limitation of the problem. What if salvation is by Buddha or Vishnu or Siva or Isis? DeCarte ignored those possibilities. What if it IS by Christ--whose interpretation of Christ are you going to use? The Catholic Church? Methodists? Baptists? Christian Scientists? Mormons? Holy Rollers?

The wager is flawed in that it assumes there is NO cost to siding with Christ. Not true. Being in any religion costs plenty in time and money. And in integrity--believing many dogmas requires that you engage in play-pretend, or that you even damage your ability to think and use logic. Some churches carry this so far that its members can reasonably said to be mentally damaged or even irrational.

And what if salvation winds up being an eternal slave in somebody else's paradise? What if the gods lie? What if the gods play hideous jokes on humans for their own amusement?

What if you could have become a great statesman, businessman or scientiest, and done something to save humanity--but you threw it all away to become a groveling, bowing, tithing, syncophant to a pulpit master?

[CraigD]

Originally Posted by Pyrotex

This is just DeCarte's Wager. It's been around for at least 300 years.

The opportunity to catch Pyrotex in a rare error concerning matters theological is irresistible! It’s Pascal’s wager, not Descarte’s.

Other than the philosopher, I think the rest of the post is right on.

[Mercedes Benzene]

Doesn't it make sense to have faith in something?
I think it's better to go through your life actually believing in God and salvation and all that jazz...
If you do believe in such things, I think that you would live a much happier prosperous life...
...because you know that...

If you do believe:
1.) If it is true... you are granted eternal salvation.
2.) If it isn't true... then you just die along with everyone else

If you don't believe:
1.) If it is true... you go to hell
2.) If it isn't true... then you just die along with everyone else

Doesn't it make sense that you believe in God, and cover all your bases??
It seems to me that you have nothing to lose...


Just my ideas.

[ughaibu]

Your idea could be reworded as "it's better to go through your life actually believing in the devil and damnation and all that jazz". I dont see why such a belief would be expected to lead to a "much happier prosperous life".

[Mercedes Benzene]

Your idea could be reworded as "it's better to go through your life actually believing in the devil and damnation and all that jazz". I dont see why such a belief would be expected to lead to a "much happier prosperous life".

Knowing that you could still "live" once you die? That would make me happier.

It's all opinion... just like everything else.

[Edella]

Originally Posted by Mercedes Benzene

Doesn't it make sense to have faith in something?
I think it's better to go through your life actually believing in God and salvation and all that jazz...
If you do believe in such things, I think that you would live a much happier prosperous life...
...because you know that...

If you do believe:
1.) If it is true... you are granted eternal salvation.
2.) If it isn't true... then you just die along with everyone else

If you don't believe:
1.) If it is true... you go to hell
2.) If it isn't true... then you just die along with everyone else

Doesn't it make sense that you believe in God, and cover all your bases??
It seems to me that you have nothing to lose...


Just my ideas.

Oh,but you do have something to lose,and it would be hard to cover all your bases,imo.I wrote something earlier about Pascal's Wager:http://hypography.com/forums/theolog...tml#post115926
Tell me what you think.

Cheers,
Ed

[Mercedes Benzene]

Yup! You and everyone else make excellent points.
Once again, it does, and always will come down to personal preference.
There is no point in arguing with anyone if they want to be stubborn and refuse to believe what you want.

Christians will always fight with Christians.
Christians will always fight with Muslims.
Muslims will always fight with Jews.
Jews will always fight with Muslims.
Jews will always fight with Christians
Muslims will always fight will Christians
Atheists will fight with everyone....

...the list goes on and on until all the different religions are covered.
And, everyone will always fight with everyone else on the topic of religion until someone is proven right.
If God decides to come down and announce that he's gonna end the world, then we'll all know.

But otherwise, there is no point in trying to convince anyone of anything that they don't already believe in.

People are stubborn.

[Mercedes Benzene]

Wikipedia sums up this argument nicely if anyone wants to check it out.

They even include a rationale chart that puts everything in a nice, organized manner.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal%27s_wager