Plant Shamanism: The one the Religion cant give you....

[neuroflux]

Im not going to break doen every little sentence i wrote for Infinite now. If you cannot understand what i am writing, then read it again.
My tone?
There is a difference between Having a intelligent dialog, and a one way converstion.Picking a part every little thing i wrote is annoying.
I came here to see if i could stir up a intelligent discussion on bridging Shamism and Science. because it is right now as we speak happening.
How we understand how our brains work-i.e. Neurotransmission,....and how the shamans worked there brains by using entheogens.

our brains, for the most part all run the same way, ....seritonin by day melatonin then DMT and pinoline by night, collectivly we spend billions of hours in this realm that i have brought up here.
A world that we just fall asleep and it all happens for us....BUT what if we could go there while we are awake?
And from personal experience, and studying i know this to be a fact.
And i am encouraged everytime to come back and share.
WHY?
SHARING IS CARING.

neuroflux......................................... ....................................

[ughaibu]

Neuroflux:
Are you complaining about lack of organised research into the effects of these drugs?
If so, why is this thread in the theology forum?
As you have listed above, pretty much all psychoactive drugs have a history as sacrements, do tryptamines have any special religious significance?
How is tryptamine shamanism socially relevant, as a religious concept, to the "Western collective Ego"?

[Pyrotex]

Originally Posted by neuroflux

...It was like ... 13th dimensional millipedes saying themselves to themselves as they make love, and impossible Gordian knots dancing the jitterbug at a lyrical lightspeed: a gelatinous ballet of endlessly self-juxtaposing pirouettes. You realize all at once you have arrived and are now having darshan with this gigantically insectoid, otherworldly Oz...

Babbling. Incoherent, senseless, pre-adolescent babbling. Worthless, without real content, a waste of ASCII, empty of all meaning, pointless, destitute of reason, mindless, irrational and stupid.

And then, on the negative side...

[InfiniteNow]

First and foremost, let me point out the rules:
http://hypography.com/forums/?page=rules

Originally Posted by Hypography Rules: How should I behave?

1. In general, back up your claims by using links or references.
2. If you make strange claims, please provide proof or at least backup of some kind. If you fail to do so, or the backup you provide is not deemed adequate, the moderators may move your post to the Strange Claims forum.
3. If you want to refute someone's claims, please stay calm and point out where you think they went wrong, and what kind of proof you base your own opinion on.
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6. If you ask for opinions, respect the replies you get.
7. It is generally a good idea not to spend all your time in only a few topics.
8. Do not endlessly show us that *your* theory is the *only* truth. And don't follow this up by making people look stupid for pointing out that there are other answers, especially if they provide links and resources. It will get you banned!
9. Rude and offensive behaviour is not tolerated and might lead to instant banning (at the discretion of the forum staff)

Originally Posted by neuroflux

Im not going to break doen every little sentence i wrote for Infinite now. If you cannot understand what i am writing, then read it again.
My tone?
There is a difference between Having a intelligent dialog, and a one way converstion.Picking a part every little thing i wrote is annoying.

Nobody is forcing you to stay. If I've posted something, and somebody picks it apart, I would either support it intelligently or state clearly that I do not know.

I came here to see if i could stir up a intelligent discussion on bridging Shamism and Science. because it is right now as we speak happening.
How we understand how our brains work-i.e. Neurotransmission,....and how the shamans worked there brains by using entheogens.

our brains, for the most part all run the same way, ....seritonin by day melatonin then DMT and pinoline by night, collectivly we spend billions of hours in this realm that i have brought up here.
A world that we just fall asleep and it all happens for us....BUT what if we could go there while we are awake?
And from personal experience, and studying i know this to be a fact.

You know why I'm so hard on you? I've done and thought many of the things you referenced. I've also spent time doing research in Psychopharmacology, Perception, Cognition, and other mind sciences. I've worked in labs with numerous professors and grad students. I've done large amounts of reading into the workings of the human nervous system, on anatomical, neurological, physiological, as well as philosophical levels. I've also tried to broaden my knowledge by studying other topics like history, art, physics, mathematics, technology, and others.

If you want to be taken seriously, you need to be able to support your comments when people like myself poke holes in them. If you cannot, then you're completely doomed if you really want to bring your topic into a better light with the majority of members of the scientific community.

[Turtle]

Racoon's post #22 & neuroflex's post #23 (albeit long) contain more than enough science reference to justify this thread. As to where it belongs is up to argument as it is fitting to theology, social science, & medicine.

I have in the past challenged simple dialogs of psychoactive experiences, & I still feel as others do that it is not up to Hypography standards without any correlation to science. While this thread started with such a dialog, it has developed suitable science aspects to support its continuation.

[neuroflux]

So, what scientific "facts" have i missed?

As far as the trip report goes, Have you ever heard of creative writing? Have you ever tried to explain something and been at a lost for words? I'm sure your familar with poerty. For myself when i read that, i thought it was amazingly written, it was fun to read.
I find it fun to describe things that you cannot find words for. Lighten up! Sometimes i even make up new words,,like floward, or mathemagickal, they sound neat.

The reason that i posted this in the theology section, is that these molecules address the issues that theology has been either exploring,translating,working with,preaching, or supressing for thousands of years.
Fear of the unknown is a common human behavior.fear of not being in control of ones Ego- and world.
And i have a feeling that these entheogens, are now and in the near future, going to help us to learn to create our realities better.
I really think that Terrence Mckenna's essay is a great place to ask questions from, He has a Academic Education, been all over the world, established a preservation gardens in hawaii, and been a great assett to raising questions an drawing attention to this experince, and how it works in our brains, he draws the scientific and the Archaic together well.
Like i stated earlier, besides Pasting article after article about this, ive tried to be as thurrow as possible and if ther is anything that i am missing that needs claification about the scientifc realm of DMT, and Psilocybin then id like to know.
And of course, as frusturating as it may seem, having people address this in the way that folks have here, helps me to be more on my ball better.
Please keep in mynd that although i enjoy science, i am an artist and a writer, and i enjoy being creative with my posts, lingusticly and idea wise.
I posted Terrence's essay in the Where do angels come from thread.

Man is it hot out! I think were at 40+ out............................................:hy per:

[ughaibu]

So, your thesis is that imbalances of brain chemicals are a leading cause of mystical experience(?)

[Mercedes Benzene]

I knew Orby was gonna have a field day with this one.

[Turtle]

Originally Posted by ughaibu

So, your thesis is that imbalances of brain chemicals are a leading cause of mystical experience(?)

It is premature & unsubstantiated to use the term imbalance inasmuch no one is in agreement on what balanced is.

Originally Posted by neuroflux

And i have a feeling that these entheogens, are now and in the near future, going to help us to learn to create our realities better.

I disagree with this. In part because these psychoative agents evolved with & within us & yet remain marginal, and further because meditative practices have the same facility to induce altered states as do the psychoactives.
It is fallacious to suggest everyone needs (or can even tolerate) the same medicine.

[ughaibu]

Turtle:
Fair enough, but neither is there agreement about what constitute religious or spiritual experiences. These factors make it difficult to see what this thread attempts to address. I'm trying to find a meaning, beyond the statement of the author's preference in drugs.