Is atheism a religion

[ughaibu]

Hallenrm: Sorry, I dont see how your latest post relates to the assertion that atheism is a religion.

[C1ay]

Originally Posted by hallenrm

What I was wondering is why this thread does not find place in the recent posts? Is it a new administrative policy of Hypography science forums? But that can't be true there is a thread with the word religion in its title that is appearing at the moment in the recent posts.

I will respond to the point raised by Clay in a moment!

The Theolgy Forum is blocked from "Recent Posts". We are a science site and do not wish to promote or solicit these discussions. There are plenty of other sites for the endless creationism debates.

[C1ay]

Originally Posted by hallenrm

so if someone says that I does not believes in their beliefs it is a counter belief. A counter belief is still a belief!

Originally Posted by hallenrm

Let me now come down to the beliefs....To plug a long story short, I mean to say that almost all human beliefs (and counter beliefs too) at a particular time have certain bias built in, that is shared by a group of people, whether very large of very small. It does not serve any purpose to counter statements of a particular belief with counter statements of another belief.

You imply though that there is no lack of belief, that any lack of belief is a belief itself. I disagree with that premise. If you claimed a belief in a deity and I said that I do not believe the same as you then I am simply stating a lack of your belief, not a belief that is opposite you belief or a counterbelief as you put it. Some atheists claim to believe that there is no God, some of us just lack belief in a God. I, for example, do not claim a belief that there is no God because I couldn't provide a reason or proof for believing that. I simply claim that I don't believe in God and that I do not believe it is possible to prove that God does or does not exist. As a skeptic, I don't believe anything without evidence. That is not a counter belief, just a simple lack of belief. See the difference?

[hallenrm]

Originally Posted by Clay

The Theolgy Forum is blocked from "Recent Posts". We are a science site and do not wish to promote or solicit these discussions. There are plenty of other sites for the endless creationism debates.

May I then ask why you an administrator and also a senior editor of this forum started this thread in the Theology Forum section?

[C1ay]

Originally Posted by hallenrm

May I then ask why you an administrator and also a senior editor of this forum started this thread in the Theology Forum section?

To keep this inevitable off topic discussion from taking place in pgrmdave's thread polling religiosity at Hypography. That's why this thread begins with quotes from that thread.

[hallenrm]

The Theolgy Forum is blocked from "Recent Posts". We are a science site and do not wish to promote or solicit these discussions. There are plenty of other sites for the endless creationism debates.

Originally Posted by Clay

To keep this inevitable off topic discussion from taking place in pgrmdave's thread polling religiosity at Hypography. That's why this thread begins with quotes from that thread.

Still the question remains, why have a Theology Forum at all, And what purpose does it serve to allow a reverred member to start a debate on such a topic and then create another thread inevitable discussion taking place there. A serious review of the policies is the need of the hour, so I feel!

[Boerseun]

Originally Posted by hallenrm

Still the question remains, why have a Theology Forum at all...

Simply because religion of all kinds and flavours is indeed a very important element in shaping societies and communities. Its effect on society can be seen, and its dynamics can be verified and studied scientifically.

The purpose of the Theology Forum at Hypo is not intended to discuss the nature of God/Allah/Brahma etc. or the existence or non-existence of these deities, but simply so discuss those artifacts of religions which can be scientifically scrutinized, like the social impacts described above.

[C1ay]

Originally Posted by hallenrm

Still the question remains, why have a Theology Forum at all

Theology is a valid branch of philosophy which is itself a science. We wish to allow discussions in a philosophical context. There are valid philosophical and sociological discussions in the context of science that fall under the umbrella of humanities. Then there are the biblical debates which simply don't belong here for lack of science; there are plenty of other fora for those elsewhere.

[pgrmdave]

Atheism can be either a religious-type belief, based on the belief that there is no god, or not, based on the lack of belief in a god. There is a distinction, and to say that all atheists are one or the other is simply ignoring the truth. I think there are actually three different types of atheists.

1 - the "apathetic" atheist. While I doubt there are many in this forum, there are many people who just don't care. They are atheists because it doesn't matter to them, so they don't bother to think about it.

2 - the "logical" atheist. This is a person who looks at the lack of direct evidence for a god, and determines that it is illogical to believe that a god exists, so they have a lack of belief in god. This is the kind that I suspect most here are, hence for them, it is not a religion, it is not a belief set any more than a disbelief in fairy tales.

3 - the 'religious' atheist. This is a person who is very similar to the logical atheist, with one important difference. They not only lack a belief in god, but have an active disbelief, in fact a belief that there cannot be a god. This is a position which cannot be backed up logically, and is very similar to religious beliefs. While they seem similar to the logical, they refuse to acknowledge the potential for any sort of spirituality

Those are, in my experiance, the three basic types of atheism. Anybody, on either side, who tries to lump them all into one category ignores the others. Yes, there are people who are "religious" about their atheism, but that doesn't mean that everybody who is an atheist is religious. And yes, you may not be a religious atheist, but that doesn't mean that everybody who is an atheist is like you.

[C1ay]

Originally Posted by pgrmdave

3 - the 'religious' atheist. This is a person who is very similar to the logical atheist, with one important difference. They not only lack a belief in god, but have an active disbelief, in fact a belief that there cannot be a god. This is a position which cannot be backed up logically, and is very similar to religious beliefs. While they seem similar to the logical, they refuse to acknowledge the potential for any sort of spirituality

While such atheists disbelieve with faith that they are correct, it does not amount to religion.

Originally Posted by Oxford Dictionary

religion • noun

1 the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods.
2 a particular system of faith and worship.
3 a pursuit or interest followed with devotion.

Originally Posted by Merriam Webster

Main Entry: re·li·gion
Function: noun

1 a : the state of a religious <a nun in her 20th year of religion>
b

(1) : the service and worship of God or the supernatural
(2) : commitment or devotion to religious faith or observance

2 : a personal set or institutionalized system of religious attitudes, beliefs, and practices
3 archaic : scrupulous conformity : CONSCIENTIOUSNESS
4 : a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith

Originally Posted by Answers.com Dictionary

re·li·gion (rĭ-lĭj'ən) pronunciation
n.
1.

1. Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe.
2. A personal or institutionalized system grounded in such belief and worship.

2. The life or condition of a person in a religious order.
3. A set of beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of a spiritual leader.
4. A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion.

And antonyms of religion?

Originally Posted by Answers.com Thesaurus

religion n
Definition: belief in higher power
Antonyms: agnosticism, atheism, disbelief

According to the Online Etymology Dictionary there are several possible origins for the term religion.

c.1200, "state of life bound by monastic vows," also "conduct indicating a belief in a divine power," from Anglo-Fr. religiun
(11c.) from O.Fr. religion "religious community," from L. religionem (nom. religio) "respect for what is sacred, reverence for the gods," in L.L. "monastic life"
(5c.); according to Cicero, derived from relegare "go through again, read again," from re- "again" + legere "read" (see lecture).

However, popular etymology among the later ancients (and many modern writers) connects it with religare "to bind fast" (see rely), via notion of "place an obligation on," or "bond between humans and gods." Another possible origin is religiens "careful," opposite of negligens. Meaning "particular system of faith" is recorded from c.1300.

"The equal toleration of all religions ... is the same thing as atheism." [Pope Leo XIII, Immortale Dei, 1885]

Modern sense of "recognition of, obedience to, and worship of a higher, unseen power" is from 1535. Religious is first recorded c.1225. Transfered sense of "scrupulous, exact" is recorded from 1599.

The atheistic belief that there is no higher power is not really described in any of the roots of the word religion and is actually quoted as a tolerance of religions which implies it was not considered a religion itself.

IMO, some atheists have what I consider an illogical belief that there is/are no god(s). Their belief is one of faith since it is an unprovable claim but it does not meet the test for religion.