Biotheology

[Galapagos]

Originally Posted by pamela

My son has a history of seizures although non epileptic in origin. Last year, after a lengthy convulsive seizure, something odd occured. He would pray constantly. .....

I'm a bit curious-- has anyone ever responded to him while he was praying? I mean, has he ever hallucinated any voices, had any "miraculous revelations" etc...

[pamela]

hi Galapagos,
No he has not heard any voices. He does though at times, refers to something that he calls "daymares". He sees a vision that he states comes out of his eyes.Now these are unpleasant images that mainly involve someone being hurt or killed. Quite disturbing, and they seem to follow a pattern, triggered by stress. As long as he remains relatively calm and happy, they are nonexistant.

[Turtle]

Originally Posted by Galapagos

The article in the OP has much interesting information about extreme spiritual experience, but according to Atran(in "In Gods We Trust") these are not the experience of your average religious believer. Most people do not experience seizures, practice meditation or trance states, or have fits of glossolalia.
Here is the summary/conclusion of Atran's chapter "Waves of Passion" addressing the frontal lobe theories of Persinger etc..: ...

Well, we appear to have rung your gong G! It will take me some time to get to all your interesting references in even a cursory manner, but I do agree about the "...not the experience of your average religious believer..." line. It is the unfortunate cargo of so much of psycho-neurology that the majority of data comes from pathological subjects, and so too seems the case for using the new real-time brain imaging technology so far. I suspect that the 'average Joe' professing a belief in God (some 60 to 70% of Americans according to many polls asking the question "Do you believe in God?") has a range of distinctive brain activity that is separable by its form from the zealots on either end of the curve.

Well, off to do some reading then. I'll make haste slowly.

[HydrogenBond]

Religion is based on subjectivity, since many of the affects can not be viewed with the sensory systems for objective verification. Science specializes in the objective sides of reality. Science and religion are the two specialists for humanity, since humans are both subjective and objective.

Where problems often occur is when either specialist tries to move into the other's area of specialty. The most obvious is when some members of religious groups attempt to define the objective aspects of evolution out of subjectivity. Religion systems are designed to explain and regulate the subjectivities of human nature. They are not there to objectively define physical nature.

But the affect also occurs the other way around when science enters the subjective realm of religion speciality. For example, probability is a system of math that can induce subjectivity before objectivity. Say we had a basket of equal amounts of various colored balls. We can calculate the odds of picking any given color and they are all the same. After that, a group of people are sitting around placing their bets. Before the winner is picked, different people will place their bet on different colors based on their subjective feeling. Once we pick, we have objective reality again. Nobody was exactly objective until reality returned the objective result.

Let us change the experiment and add the buzz word "risk". Risk is one of the colors in the barrel. People will place their bets, with the buzz word risk, helping to subjectively stack the subjective way people will bet, because it will induce fear, which is the strongest subjective emotion. That will become the most popular color to bet on, because it will induce the strongest subjective feeling for betting.

One will never see science say, brand-x increases the odds of y by 5%. That means that Y is a long shot, since we have 19 yellows and 1 red in the basket. If I was a betting man and used probability, in an objective way, I would pick pick yellow because of 19 to 1 odds. Instead, middle men take over the booking and will present the long shot with subjective fear (risk) knowing it is not an objective probability bet. This allows the house to win more.

Where religion comes it, since it specializes in subjectivity, it will try to teach one to lower the fear, so the subjectively implied fear doesn't slant betting toward the long shot of the odds. With the fear lower, one has more options, as to how they will place their bet. There will still be losers, but the bookies can't make as much.

The odds makers of science are giving everyone good data for betting. But the middlemen give a subjective hint for betting. They enter the subjective realm where they are less qualified. If science could get rid of religion, culture could increase betting on many long shots, using either fear or desire as sort of subjective insider information. Religion is a nuisance to this. For example, faith healing is not always the winning bet, but it makes one less likely to instinctively pick the fear long shot, on cue. But from the subjectivity of science, faith healing will not be seen as using the most probable bet. Rather it will think in terms of long shot examples, due to the fear. Science is not equipped to deal with the subjectivity, even if its own objective odds pick the path that is not based on the fear long shot.

[Turtle]

Who'd a thunk it? Believers are apparently wired to not admit mistakes.

Brain Differences Found Between Believers In God And Non-believers

Originally Posted by ScienceDaily

(Mar. 5, 2009) — Believing in God can help block anxiety and minimize stress, according to new University of Toronto research that shows distinct brain differences between believers and non-believers.
...
Their findings show religious belief has a calming effect on its devotees, which makes them less likely to feel anxious about making errors or facing the unknown. But Inzlicht cautions that anxiety is a "double-edged sword" which is at times necessary and helpful.

"Obviously, anxiety can be negative because if you have too much, you're paralyzed with fear," he says. "However, it also serves a very useful function in that it alerts us when we're making mistakes. If you don't experience anxiety when you make an error, what impetus do you have to change or improve your behaviour so you don't make the same mistakes again and again?"...

[Turtle]

Something new from science on the nature of religious hardwiring in weuns' widdle bwains.


Our brains are wired up for god | The Australian

Originally Posted by Leigh Dayton

Our brains are wired up for god
THE brain of every human being, from believers to atheists, has been revealed to contain at least three "god spots", all linked to religious beliefs and thoughts.

A team of US researchers has obtained strong evidence that religiosity is managed by the same parts of the brain that are used every day to interpret other people's moods and intentions and to analyse experiences.

Moreover, the spots exist in the brains of ordinary people, not just those whose extraordinary religious experiences have been triggered by brain injury or neurological conditions like epilepsy. ...

[Theory5]

Originally Posted by Turtle

Just now listening to this author on the radio. This is what I keep talking about.
The GOD Part Of The Brain - Matthew Alper

Will post commentary later. Enjoy.

"BioTheology" thats an oxymoron like "Cristian Scientist"
I wouldnt necessarily call it the "god" part...
[quote]
Their findings show religious belief has a calming effect on its devotees, which makes them less likely to feel anxious about making errors or facing the unknown.[quote]
...maybe we can call it the "sheep" part.

Believing in God can help block anxiety and minimize stress

Which part allows you to block the memories of what that priest did when you were 4? :-P

"I believe there were no gas chambers... I think that 200,000 to 300,000 Jews perished in Nazi concentration camps but none of them by gas chambers," Richard Williamson told SVT television in an interview that was recorded in Germany last November. "There was not one Jew killed by the gas chambers. It was all lies, lies, lies!"

Or to belive that the holocaust never happened?

A decision this week by the Kansas Board of Education to delete the teaching of evolution from the state's science curriculum has angered the mainstream science community in the United States.

How about that push to brainwash young children?

I dont think this is true. These "scientists" look for "cures" to lifestyles and preferences. They belive they can "fix" people's "sins" through a form of "science". They engage in brainwashing and mass uneducation (sort of like our public schools except this is geared towards religion rather than consumerism). At first your religions killed anyone who belived something different than the church. Ever heard of gallaleo? Killed because he decided the church was wrong on something. Religion is for sheep, for people who can't belive in themselves. I have no problem with you and your delusion until you start interfearing with science and other people.

LOOK! Saint Ted is on my post: *GASP*

[Turtle]

Originally Posted by Theory5

"BioTheology" thats an oxymoron like "Cristian Scientist"
I wouldnt necessarily call it the "god" part...

When you write your own book, you can call it want you want. Biotheology, however, is a scientific term, not a religious one, and sometimes called neurotheology. >> Neurotheology - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Originally Posted by WikiPedia

Neurotheology, also known as biotheology or spiritual neuroscience[1], is the study of correlations of neural phenomena with subjective experiences of spirituality and hypotheses to explain these phenomena. Proponents of neurotheology claim that there is a neurological and evolutionary basis for subjective experiences traditionally categorized as spiritual or religious .[2]

Here's an interesting resource page for biotheology/neurotheology: Center For Cognitive Liberty & Ethics >>neurotheology article

[Theory5]

Early studies in the 1950s and 1960s attempted to use EEGs to study brain wave patterns correlated with "spiritual" states. During the 1980s Dr. Michael Persinger stimulated the temporal lobes of human subjects with a weak magnetic field. His subjects claimed to have a sensation of "an ethereal presence in the room"...

But this is part of what I am trying to say. They use science to explore the brain and the body, but when something does not make sense or if it can't be explained by current science then it is labeled as "spirits" or "demons" or the "devil" and most recently "god".
Back when religion and superstition ruled, when people got headaces and migranes a "doctor" would cut a hole in the skull. If the pacient survived the procedure then they got to wear the peice as a necklace. They did this to "open a hole in the head to let the demons out". How are these "god spots" different? You cant explain them with current science so you try to explain them theologically.

[Turtle]

Originally Posted by Theory5

But this is part of what I am trying to say. They use science to explore the brain and the body, but when something does not make sense or if it can't be explained by current science then it is labeled as "spirits" or "demons" or the "devil" and most recently "god".
Back when religion and superstition ruled, when people got headaces and migranes a "doctor" would cut a hole in the skull. If the pacient survived the procedure then they got to wear the peice as a necklace. They did this to "open a hole in the head to let the demons out". How are these "god spots" different? You cant explain them with current science so you try to explain them theologically.

Mmmmm...erhmmm....no. Not even wrong.

Please refrain from posting unsupported psuedo-scientific babble to this thread.