Biotheology

[Theory5]

Originally Posted by Turtle

Mmmmm...erhmmm....no. Not even wrong.

Please refrain from posting unsupported psuedo-scientific babble to this thread.

What? Which part of what i posted is unsupported? The holes in the head thing is called trepanation. Oh I see now what you mean:

Voluntary Trepanation
Although considered today to be pseudoscience, the practice of trepanation for other purported medical benefits continues. The most prominent explanation for these benefits is offered by Dutchman Bart Huges (alternatively spelled Bart Hughes). He is sometimes called Dr. Bart Hughes although he did not complete his medical degree. Hughes claims that trepanation increases "brain blood volume" and thereby enhances cerebral metabolism in a manner similar to cerebral vasodilators such as ginkgo biloba. No published results have supported these claims.

That is not what i am talking about.

Trepanation was carried out for both medical reasons and mystical practices for a long time. Evidence of trepanation has been found in prehistoric human remains from Neolithic times onwards.

The bone that was trepanned was kept by the prehistoric people and worn as charms to keep evil spirits away.

This is more on track. Also, I never said I support or belive "voluntary trepanation". I was giving an example of the practice in prehistoric times to explain how people can be led to belive almost anything if they do not understand it.
Religion has always been threatened by science. Why now are you guys so interested in it? Why does it work now when it didnt work in the 18th and 19th century? Why does the everything revolve around the sun NOW when you said it didn't while you killed galileo?
Instead of trying to find a "gay gene" to fix peoples "sins" how about you try to find the gene that makes most people brainless sheep, and try to swap it with the uncommon leader gene (also called the think-for-yourself gene)?

[Turtle]

Originally Posted by Theory5

What? Which part of what i posted is unsupported? The holes in the head thing is called trepanation. Oh I see now what you mean:


That is not what i am talking about.



This is more on track. Also, I never said I support or belive "voluntary trepanation". I was giving an example of the practice in prehistoric times to explain how people can be led to belive almost anything if they do not understand it.
Religion has always been threatened by science. Why now are you guys so interested in it? Why does it work now when it didnt work in the 18th and 19th century? Why does the everything revolve around the sun NOW when you said it didn't while you killed galileo?
Instead of trying to find a "gay gene" to fix peoples "sins" how about you try to find the gene that makes most people brainless sheep, and try to swap it with the uncommon leader gene (also called the think-for-yourself gene)?

Unsupported as in you offer no scholarly evidence, i.e. no links. For the record, Galileo was sentenced to house arrest and died of old age, not killed as you say. Had he not been such a smart ass and lampooned the Pope publicly, he likely wouldn't have had that house arrest. Sometimes the bright can be very dim. >>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galileo_affair

Who is "you guys?" Either you do not understand this thread & my position, or you can not clearly express your ideas on it, or both. Please stop posting speculation and opinion here without supporting references. Dank.

[Moontanman]

Originally Posted by Theory5

But this is part of what I am trying to say. They use science to explore the brain and the body, but when something does not make sense or if it can't be explained by current science then it is labeled as "spirits" or "demons" or the "devil" and most recently "god".
Back when religion and superstition ruled, when people got headaces and migranes a "doctor" would cut a hole in the skull. If the pacient survived the procedure then they got to wear the peice as a necklace. They did this to "open a hole in the head to let the demons out". How are these "god spots" different? You cant explain them with current science so you try to explain them theologically.

Theory5, I don't think anyone is trying to explain these God spots theologically, the name god spots is very much tongue in cheek. It is not meant to show anyone believes God is really coming into these spots or the spots are associated with any supernatural being. The so called God spots are really places in the brain that seem to cause a odd feeling of presence that in some people is seen as the presence of god, in some it's the presence of aliens, should we call those spots "alien" spots? These places do not cause anyone to think that god is anymore real they do show that the brain can be manipulated to cause the person to have these odd sensations by an outside source that has nothing to do with god and everything to do with the way the brain is wired. It gives some insight in to how certain brain disorders can cause people to see and feel the presence of god or aliens or succubus or incubus. The brain can be manipulated by technology to fool a person into having God or alien like experiences. No theology is being used to explain anything.

[HydrogenBond]

"If" such a thing as a god spot existed, I would expect the god spot to be in the center of the brain and not on the surface. The thalamus is a possible place since it is the most wired place of the brain. The surface stuff is to too limited in any particular place and may be more of an thalamus-cerebral loop.

[Moontanman]

Originally Posted by HydrogenBond

"If" such a thing as a god spot existed, I would expect the god spot to be in the center of the brain and not on the surface. The thalamus is a possible place since it is the most wired place of the brain. The surface stuff is to too limited in any particular place and may be more of an thalamus-cerebral loop.

HB, there is no doubt that a "god spot" exists and it is on or near the surface of the Temporal lobe of the brain. A fluctuating magnetic Field can stimulate the temporal lobe and cause the feeling of presence, in some individuals this will be so strong they hear see and feel the presence of God, angels, or aliens. A quick google search would show that your idea about the surface of the brain is totally wrong. The surface of the brain controls most of what we call the human mind.

[Turtle]

Originally Posted by HydrogenBond

"If" such a thing as a god spot existed, I would expect the god spot to be in the center of the brain and not on the surface. The thalamus is a possible place since it is the most wired place of the brain. The surface stuff is to too limited in any particular place and may be more of an thalamus-cerebral loop.

Stop!!! Enough of the speculative crapulence here!!! Either provide some supportive material or don't post.

[Moontanman]

I already have see post #20

I've read this thread and so far it would seem no one is aware that a deeply religious experience can be triggered simply by stimulating the temporal lobes of the brain with a certain electromagnetic field. This would seem to show that religion and god both originate in the brain.

The God Experiments | The Rational Response Squad

Electromagnetic spirituality: Seeing God and becoming one with the universe using the “God Helmet” The Frame Problem

Erowid Mind Devices Vaults : Magnetic Brain Stimulation

[Turtle]

Originally Posted by Moontanman

I already have see post #20

I presume you're responding to me? Well enough; if the shoe doesn't fit, don't put it on.
To be clear, I was not getting on your case Moon Man, it is H-Bond and his habit of posting psuedo-scientific speculation without reference that has me cheesed right now.

This is one thread that belongs in theology as laid out by the ground-rules and yet try as I might to guide it by scientific standards it's just one babble & gobbledygook speculation post after another. Keep it up and I'll continue to issue harsh criticism.

[HydrogenBond]

I was taking the "god spot" as meaning literal. If you look at a god concept, it is not limited to human limitations. Logically, one needs to look at the most wired aspect of the brain for the foundation of the affect. The output affect may end up on the surface, where it is easier to investigate. But the thalamus will be involved in the process, since it is the switching station that is involved in maintaining consciousness, of an effect, that to some, appears to have a consciousness of its own.

The analogy is the sun. We see the flares and sunspots on the surface and define the sun by these, since this is easier to see and investigate. But it is the smaller fusion core that is generating all the output that translates into the surface affects. There is some autonomy of surface effect, but without the core active, it is a moot point. The thalamus has its finger in every pie, including things the cerebral does not control.

From Wikipedia:

The thalamus is known to have multiple functions. Deduced from the design of the isothalamus, it is generally believed to act as a translator for which various "prethalamic" inputs are processed into a form readable by the cerebral cortex. The thalamus is believed to both process and relay sensory information selectively to various parts of the cerebral cortex, as one thalamic point may reach one or several regions in the cortex.

The thalamus also plays an important role in regulating states of sleep and wakefulness.[4] Thalamic nuclei have strong reciprocal connections with the cerebral cortex, forming thalamo-cortico-thalamic circuits that are believed to be involved with consciousness. The thalamus plays a major role in regulating arousal, the level of awareness, and activity. Damage to the thalamus can lead to permanent coma.

[pamela]

from wiki
Neurotheology, also known as biotheology or spiritual neuroscience, is the study of correlations of neural phenomena with subjective experiences of spirituality and hypotheses to explain these phenomena. Proponents of neurotheology claim that there is a neurological and evolutionary basis for subjective experiences traditionally categorized as spiritual or religious

.

Neurotheology - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
As noted in the above posts, "experiences" will occur when prompted by a stimulus, whether that be from a neurological disorder or electromagnetically. The evolutionary basis for this hypothesis is where I find difficulty in accepting this

from wiki
The God gene hypothesis proposes that human beings inherit a set of genes that predisposes them to believe in a higher power. The idea has been postulated by geneticist Dean Hamer, the director of the Gene Structure and Regulation Unit at the U.S. National Cancer Institute, who has written a book on the subject titled, The God Gene: How Faith is Hardwired into our Genes.

The God gene hypothesis is based on a combination of behavioral genetic, neurobiological and psychological studies. The major arguments behind the theory are (1) spirituality can be quantified by psychometric measurements; (2) the underlying tendency to spirituality is partially heritable; (3) part of this heritability can be attributed to the gene VMAT2.(4) this gene acts by altering monoamine levels, and (5) this confers a selective advantage. However, a number of scientists and researchers are highly critical of this theory; Carl Zimmer, writing in Scientific American, questions why "Hamer rushed into print with this book before publishing his results in a credible scientific journal."In his book, Hamer backs away from the title and main hypotheses by saying "Just because spirituality is partly genetic doesn't mean it is hardwired,"

God gene - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia