Religion, its Function

[chatlack]

Sanctus; I think its really important to have a motivation in life, so you can bear what you feel in the world and you can draw your way through it.
When I do not believe in something, sometimes I feel hopeless,misguided, although its obvious that everyone lies himself.
By the way, you must find an "escape pod" to work on it with happiness, believing that its the only way you can be happy or only thing that helps the world spin...
But I must say, I found my god in my instincts, living freely and being powerful(including money) and trying to learn the nature etc...

[sanctus]

I also have my motivation in life: if I ever get old I want to be able to look back and think "no, my life has not been wasted".
Also if you look at one of my signatures you see something I found for god: the believe in utopies, for example the utopy of a humanity without wars.

[BibleBeliever]

The underlying thought here is that man created god, that we use religion as some sort of segurity blanket while we advance through the evolution of civilisation and at some point we get rid of it or at least keep it in a drawer so we know where it is if we need it again.

What if religion came first? what if God created us for a reason, His reason, and what we find in reality is that when we find God, we also find a reason for our life.

The reason I ask is, that the 'take it or leave it' attitude towards God presupposes that it doesn't matter which option we chose.

[Tormod]

Originally Posted by BibleBeliever

What if religion came first?

Well, it couldn't, could it? There was no religion before mankind. Or who was it that believed?

[chatlack]

People always felt powerless and awareless in front of the nature, so we can easily say that people created god. In an opposite case there may be god who created us, but it still doesnt change the argument. People just dont have to know about god-even when there is god- they can just behave in the same way, or just search for the reason of existence...maybe reaching the thought of creator having an objective view...
Sanctus, friend, I think you have really a good fundamental in your thoughts, so that is the best thing that a person can have. However, in that subject of utopies, I dont want to think about them, but when I see the social process I feel happy that something is going on, the result of the respect that I have upon history.

[Racoon]

Religious function serves to conform minds and subtract a tithing from your wallet or purse; Among other things.

[BibleBeliever]

Originally Posted by Tormod

Well, it couldn't, could it? There was no religion before mankind. Or who was it that believed?

By religion I mean a God and -dare I say it- a set of rules

Or to put it another way God gave us religion when He created us , we didn't create a religion to answer the unknown.

Now of course most religions can easily be disproved because they were created by man, and there are no gods atop Mt Olympus and Mars doesn't get angry at us.

But a few religions (well at least one that I know of) is harder to disprove, and it might be that this one is the one that was given rather than invented.

As to the thought that religion is there to take money out of our pockets, I see where you are coming from, and many unscrupules people use this law to their own selfish ends, but let me be the first to say that I am glad to give a chunk of my earnings to people who are not as well off as I am, not for gain but in gratitude of the wealth I have been given. If more people did this then the problems described in the original post would be less.

Religion has been used as a tool to repress, but it doesn't stop it from being a positive influence on society in the right hands, look at free health care, orphanages, free education, that can be traced back to religious folk who wanted to help mankind because of their belief.

[Zythryn]

Originally Posted by BibleBeliever

The underlying thought here is that man created god, that we use religion as some sort of segurity blanket while we advance through the evolution of civilisation and at some point we get rid of it or at least keep it in a drawer so we know where it is if we need it again.

God and religion really have very little to do with each other. The question is not about the existance of god, but what purpose religion serves.

If there is only one religion's view of god that is correct, there would be times man existed on earth where that specific religion didn't exist. Therefore religion only existed after mankind was created/evolved into homo-sapiens.

Originally Posted by BibleBeliever

What if religion came first? what if God created us for a reason, His reason, and what we find in reality is that when we find God, we also find a reason for our life.

I believe many people find reasons for their lives that don't rely on god.

Originally Posted by BibleBeliever

The reason I ask is, that the 'take it or leave it' attitude towards God presupposes that it doesn't matter which option we chose.

It matters a great deal to the individual who makes the choice

[chill]

Originally Posted by Tormod

The books I have seen tend to blame Islam, and perhaps Muslim culture, for most of this, not religion per se. I would be interested in your examples of books which blame religion in general?

Richard Dawkin's the God Delusion is not about terrorism but about the human tendency for superstition (unless I am mistaken).

Well yeah, you've got a point there. The End of Faith discusses this.

Originally Posted by Tormod

I think when religion is a necessity it is a very strong sign that something is very wrong. It is not the religion that is the problem, but the lack of welfare, social stability, education, safety etc. When these basic necessities are not present, religion tends to be a shelter.

There are a lot of thigs that are "very wrong" in the world today. And honestly, what can we do about it? Yes, religion is a shelter, that's what I'm trying to get at. "Is" cannot become "should"; the world IS very wrong and religion IS used as a shelter in this world. This cannot become: The world SHOULD be a better place and hence religion SHOULDn't be ncessary. Inequality will always be there. Let me stress upon this point about "is" cannot become "should" because it is a fallacy that is very often made in connection to the social sciences.

Originally Posted by Tormod

I partly agree. One problem arises when religion is *enforced*, like when certain missionaries or politicians demand that people adopt religious beliefs in order to gain public services, for example.

Yes, I absolutely agree with you. And although it kinda pisses me of to HAVE to have a religion as an Indonesian (me being a free-thinker), it's not such a big deal because its practice isn't monitered by the government (unlike, say, some provinces in Malaysia that adopt Islamic law). To ugahibu, the 5 religions are Islam, Christianity, Catholicism, Buddhism, and Hinduism. Judaism isn't allowed.

[chill]

Originally Posted by BibleBeliever

By religion I mean a God and -dare I say it- a set of rules.

I can understand the reasoning behind proving the existence of God, the "causa prima", for example, but what makes you suppose that He especially created a set of rules for human beings (religion)? Ok, assuming you trust science, human beings are just a result of evolution, and although we are intelligent and self-conscious, I doubt we are in any way "special" in the large scheme of things (the Universe, its billions of galaxies). We're just a happy coincidence, and we would like to think we're special and that God gave us Special Attention. But I think it's much more likely that God made up rules governing the General Affair of Things (assigned random numbers to # of dimensions, mass of elemtary particles, how these particles interact, and so on). I doubt very much that He Intended for us to happen, and even if he knows, I doubt He cares much.

However, this is not the point. Let's not talk about the validity of religion's existence philosophically but rather through its real-life results.

Originally Posted by BibleBeliever

Religion has been used as a tool to repress, but it doesn't stop it from being a positive influence on society in the right hands, look at free health care, orphanages, free education, that can be traced back to religious folk who wanted to help mankind because of their belief.

Yes, that's true. But should something be judged by its intention or by its results? The question is, has the Good done in the name of religion offset the Evil done in the name of it?