How much greatness is there beyond God ?

[clapstyx]

Well I guess firstly the question should be "Is there any greatness beyond God?" Then comes the question of how much. If one accepts that a evolution is a valid concept then of course greatness can evolve even if only at an intellectual level. Perhaps the Pope would prefer to maintain that there is no such thing as evolyion in order to ensure that there is nothing and can never be any degree of greatness not embodied within the God concept itself? Too bad if you pursue greatness at a personal level greater than that of Christ in a global leadership sense..but then oops God and Christ were apparently seperate entities so that means there is greatness beyond God.

Does anyone have a definitive point of argument to suggest that the power of God is absolute on that basis ?

[Buffy]

Originally Posted by clapstyx

Perhaps the Pope would prefer to maintain that there is no such thing as evolyion in order to ensure that there is nothing and can never be any degree of greatness not embodied within the God concept itself?

To make this greyer, the Pope actually does support Evolution, and the Catholic church has officially supported it--albeit with the origination and vague "guidance" from God--for over 50 years.

Originally Posted by clapstyx

Does anyone have a definitive point of argument to suggest that the power of God is absolute on that basis ?

You need to define your terms: what is the "power of God?" What would make it "absolute?" How do we measure "greatness" in an objective fashion so that we can compare spiritual apples to corporeal oranges?

The truth may actually not be out there,
Buffy

[Pyrotex]

Originally Posted by Buffy

...You need to define your terms: what is the "power of God?" What would make it "absolute?" How do we measure "greatness" in an objective fashion ...Buffy

Well, DUHH! You use a three-phase, alternating spirituality, directional deogloriosimeter.

Yeah, I echo Buffy's objections. There is not a hope in heaven or a snowflake in hell that you can objectify, define, reify or describe "power of god" in terms that can be rationally discussed. Please go away. Maybe god will give you a 3p/AS directional deogloriosimeter for Christmas. Until then, this (**this here website**) is a science website and we don't do gibberish.

[cotner]

Originally Posted by clapstyx

Well I guess firstly the question should be "Is there any greatness beyond God?" Then comes the question of how much. If one accepts that a evolution is a valid concept then of course greatness can evolve even if only at an intellectual level. Perhaps the Pope would prefer to maintain that there is no such thing as evolyion in order to ensure that there is nothing and can never be any degree of greatness not embodied within the God concept itself? Too bad if you pursue greatness at a personal level greater than that of Christ in a global leadership sense..but then oops God and Christ were apparently seperate entities so that means there is greatness beyond God.

Does anyone have a definitive point of argument to suggest that the power of God is absolute on that basis ?

Well I guess firstly the question should be "Is there any greatness beyond God?"

No, there is no greatness beyond God.

Then comes the question of how much. If one accepts that a evolution is a valid concept then of course greatness can evolve even if only at an intellectual level.

That is what's happening to Dawkins and Dennett, they are really exuding a greatness of scientific certitude about evolution, and stealing the thunder from Jahweh. Guess they have a grudge against Jahweh, that's why they are always parodying Him. It must be rivalry, and they really believe in God withal all the parodies.

Perhaps the Pope would prefer to maintain that there is no such thing as evolyion in order to ensure that there is nothing and can never be any degree of greatness not embodied within the God concept itself?

On the contrary, Vatican had already earlier co-opted the evolution idea and assigned it to God's genius, in that He created a scheme of life that whole populations could and did evolve so as to lead to variety and multiplicity of species, leading to the acme of this process in man.

Too bad if you pursue greatness at a personal level greater than that of Christ in a global leadership sense..but then oops God and Christ were apparently seperate entities so that means there is greatness beyond God.

You are not mindful of the doctrine of the Holy Trinity and the doctrine of the Incarnation; the first is about there being three persons (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit) in one God's substance, and the second is about the Son becoming man, a human substance but a divine person; so there is no greatness in the God/man Christ that is not redounding to God, for Christ and the Father are one with the Holy Spirit. As regards greatness on a personal level greater than that of Christ, ask lovers of Christ and they will tell you that history bears witness those who would dethrone the Christ lived to see their empire come to ruins, for example, Russia at the head of the erstwhile Union of Soviet Socialist Republics.

Does anyone have a definitive point of argument to suggest that the power of God is absolute on that basis ?

It's a matter of faith, and that is a gift of God; but if you can't reason from logic that God is as the Muslims proclaim Allah is great meaning the greatest, then at least take the gift of faith from God, that He is great beyond comparison; then also see what happened to Satan who would compete with God and found himself in deep tihs [read that backward]. Hahaha.


So, pray for the gift of faith from God, and everything will be enlightenment.


Okay?



cotner

[Pyrotex]

Originally Posted by cotner

...So, pray for the gift of faith from God, and everything will be enlightenment. Okay?...

Well, actually... I faced this dilemma when I was back in college and was torn between Biblical faith and Scientific evidence for evolution and such. And so I prayed for faith. God granted me the total abolition of faith. Faith fell from mine eyes like scales. What I had glimpsed faintly, as if through a darkling glass was now given to me to see clearly. All belief in gods and demons faded as does a bad dream upon waking.

And everything was enlightenment.

Having said that... we here at Hypography have rules about "preaching" and doing "missionary work" on this website. I can't say you've crossed the line yet, but you're getting close.

A word to the wise.

[Buffy]

Originally Posted by cotner

Well I guess firstly the question should be "Is there any greatness beyond God?"

No, there is no greatness beyond God.

As I asked clapstyx originally: define "greatness"...otherwise its just you using a word with your own definition that means nothing to anyone else and you've wasted your breath in saying it.

We're looking for understanding here, not pontification.

Originally Posted by cotner

That is what's happening to Dawkins and Dennett, they are really exuding a greatness of scientific certitude about evolution, and stealing the thunder from Jahweh. Guess they have a grudge against Jahweh, that's why they are always parodying Him. It must be rivalry, and they really believe in God withal all the parodies.

This is making the argument purposeless and personal, a notion which Drs. Dawkins and Dennett would assuredly disabuse you of were you to ask them. Its not that "science is greater than God," its simply that God is a logically sensible invention from an evolutionary standpoint, and has been used to the detriment of society--as well as helping develop it--but that it would be beneficial to man to recognize the role and uses of religion in society and take steps to ameliorate its deleterious side effects. That's not an irrational "grudge," thats recognition of a sociological impact that is worth addressing.

Your argument here is what I've always called the "don't hate me because I'm going to Heaven and you're not."

Originally Posted by cotner

As regards greatness on a personal level greater than that of Christ, ask lovers of Christ and they will tell you that history bears witness those who would dethrone the Christ lived to see their empire come to ruins, for example, Russia at the head of the erstwhile Union of Soviet Socialist Republics.

Is it still "great" if its failed in so many other places? China? Iran? Indonesia? Western California?

As a followup question, given your definition for greatness, is there a reason that God even needs it? What is it about this quality--whatever it is--that's so essential to the existence of God?

As a rule we disbelieve all the facts and theories for which we have no use,
Buffy

[cotner]

No, I ain't no preacher here.

I presume I have received the gift of faith, but I can put that gift on the shelf and talk without the faith.


This is no preachment, but just an opinion:

In my view, religion is pure option, it's like cuisine, couture, and coiffure: meaning while there might be an almost inevitability for one's psychological advantage to cultivate a religion, the kind and the degree of involvement is up to one's own discretionary judgment.

That is why I can always put the gift of faith on the shelf and talk without faith.


Laugh.



cotner

[InfiniteNow]

Originally Posted by cotner

In my view, religion is pure option, it's like cuisine, couture, and coiffure: meaning while there might be an almost inevitability for one's psychological advantage to cultivate a religion

Actually, studies tend to show that there are far more neuroses directly linked with religious cultivation than there are "psychological advantages." But hey, you DID say "might" didn't you. I guess that makes it "right."

[cotner]

My own experience tells me that if we live like animals we would never live to excess any options we have in life, like religion, sex, drugs, drinks, etc.

The human animal is one very unique and peculiar animal, it is to my knowledge the only kind that goes into excesses.

Do you know of any animals aside from man that goes to excess in those options which can be abstained from totally, and the organism is still capable of leading a healthy existence, like alcohol, drugs, sex, religion, money, caviar.

As regards sex, that is a necessity for the human population, but in every individual human one can live without sex and still be healthy. However, I must say that one can live without sex, meaning not looking for it, but sex will live with you until the sex drive has already attenuated owing to age.

Just the same, even though we can live without those things which we can go into excess of, nonetheless, if we just indulge in them within reasonable limits and control, they are very enjoyable and good to psychological health.

Again as to sex, I said that one can live without sex, but it does not mean that sex will leave you alone; sex will live with you, as at night in nocturnal emission or better ejaculation, aka wet dream, the best and most convenient and least complicated sex for anyone who wants to live without seeking sex, but just let sex seek you out -- until old age has attenuated the instinct.



cotner

[Boerseun]

Let the Total Greatness quotient in the entire universe be x.
Let God's Greatness be y.
Then, to determine the quantity of greatness left beyond God's greatness, would be a simple calculation:

x-y

And it turns out, after measuring all the variables carefully, fine-tuning our micrometers, polishing the lenses to our deep-space telescopes, buying new batteries for our calculators, rebooting our computers, sharpening our pencils and frowning our brows in astonishment, that

x-y=x

I'll leave the blindingly obvious conclusion to this astonishing result for you to work out, for yourself.