Zeitgeist

[CraigD]

I recently watched, and recommend, nationalgeographic.com’s 2009 documentary, “9/11: Science and Conspiracy" (its companion website, a major media outlet’s review).

Although this program doesn’t go as far in the pursuit of impartial reporting that it fails to conclude that the findings of the 9-11 commission are correct overall, it’s sympathetic in its depiction of “truthers” – a catch-all term for the many people and associations of people, such as David Ray Griffin, Dylan Avery, and the "Scholars for 9/11 Truth and Justice", who conclude otherwise. I found this a refreshing departure from films that either credulously support various truther positions, or take strong offense at people for holding them.

In addition to its various interviews and engineering experiments, the NatGeo film makes IMHO valid and insightful comparisons of these movements and similar conclusions about the Dec 7, 1941 Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor noting that per reliable polls, significantly more Americans at the time believed their government kept secret advanced knowledge of the 1941 attack to promote the entry of the US into WWII than now believe their government kept secret advanced knowledge of the 2001 attacks to promote the US wars against Afghanistan and Iraq, and the similarity between the reactions to these two terrible events. It also provides an introduction to the many factions and differences among truthers, from those who believe the government merely permitted the 2001 attacks to those who believe the US military actually made them. The psychology and sociology of these groups is I think, informative.

[Racoon]

I don't want to beat a dead horse, and we should move forward as a nation and people.. while honoring those who died and tried to protect people and Americans..

I just think that our government, and I imply those higher up with tremendous behind-the-curtain influence and power, (NOT the average Joe or Jane grinding through a thankless clerical job), that they have an alternate agenda.

Iraq. Post 9-11
We went into Iraq based on a lie, or at least serious misinformation. We've been caught doing all kinds of "wrong" things in the past and up to the current times.
And that was with information we had Prior to and AFTER 9-11! With all kinds of International help!
And we messed that up,... again.

If the US Government was wrong about Iraq, and obviously that seems to be a major f*ing mistake that has cost more lives than those who died in 9-11,- then what else is our Government doing thats wrong?? What else have they fudged in all their "Commission Reports"??

If you think our top leadership and those who control the economic purse strings are a bunch of Boy Scouts and Good Samaritans, I'd say you would be wrong. IMHO

[lemit]

Originally Posted by CraigD

I recently watched, and recommend, nationalgeographic.com’s 2009 documentary, “9/11: Science and Conspiracy" (its companion website, a major media outlet’s review).

That's the documentary I couldn't watch all the way through because I realized the brushfires will keep burning and taking a lot of otherwise harmless people with them. I grew up with backward, rural people who wouldn't harm anybody unless told by authoritative-sounding people that something was wrong. I'm sure the few people who remain where I grew up are reading conspiracy theory books, watching Fox News, and arming themselves for some conflict that will--if we are all very lucky--remain imaginary.

It is those people who frighten me. They are the cannon fodder for conspiracy nuts and bigots. Given a cause, they will fight. Without a cause, they will continue to farm, work on machinery, and watch NASCAR. We need to allow them to pursue the latter course.

Vigorous debate is fine. Right now, however, there are a lot of people shouting, "Fire." There isn't any fire, of course, but they're quite willing to use those rural, genuinely innocent and ignorant people to start the fire so they in retrospect will have been right. They have shown that with the manufactured fury of the Town Hall Meetings.

Somehow, we need to stop that trend. If the propagation of conspiracy theories is cause for banning, let's see somebody with the appropriate authority show something to those of us who promote Hypography as a tightly moderated science site, and to those who think they can get away with rules violations.

--lemit

[Racoon]

I can totally see Lemit as a character in a Charles Dickens' novel.

Its about asking questions.
Many things don't add up.
Theres enough scientific evidence to ask questions..
How did Titanium from the jet engine casings that smashed into the Pentagon disintegrate when jet fuel burns 2000 degrees cooler than the requiered temp to disintigrate Titanium??

Thats just a single instance.

You obviously haven't even watched the film and are already calling "BAN" for people who question the Norm.

Watch the film first. Obviously you have a hang-up about the issue.


I'm not so sure I like the tone of your last post Lemit. Not everyone here is an old curmudgeon who believes the status-quo and Daily Times newspaper.

Yes this is a Science Site , but its awfully easy to use that Label to say "stop talking about that, Its Not Science" when you realize it becomes a painful subject to defend.

It'd be Very hypocritical to Claim "Non-Scientific" about the subject when the community discusses all sorts of un-scientific politial, social,commercial matter often! much unrelated to hard facts all the time here.

You can believe whatever Bullshit you want to.
And you'll afford me the same luxury to believe all the Bullshit I choose to.
You haven't even seen the film.



Watch the film or don't. You can't really comment upon this thread or this matter until you do.
and by that point you'll already be extremely biased; and thats an Unscientific vantage you should avoid if you're to be impartial to facts ands results.

[Boerseun]

Well, I have seen the movie. A friend of mine brought it to my home the other day (a couple 'o months ago, and he wasn't very happy with my indifference towards it.

I could explain to you point by point why it's populist BS, but this kinda explains my point:

Originally Posted by NewGrounds

Why is Zeitgeist a big piece of conspiracy theory crap? Let me tell you.

Zeitgeist is another dull movie with scary pictures and dramatic music that fondly reminds me of Loose Change. Only this one is is more convoluted and idiotic. The fact that most people on the Internet are so accepting to this film astounds me. Well... actually doesn't because information of the average person on the Internet is like this. Someone hands you a piece of cheese and calls it cake. One person says it isn't cake and another insults you for it. Then that someone comes up with a well thought out plot as to why he thinks its cake and that words are meaningless. How did we come up with the word cheese instead of cake? Therefore he has all rights to call it cake. One person sees the point and spreads the idea saying how fantastic and wonderful it is. It spreads like wildfire and people are now calling cheese "cake". When in fact it is still a fucking block of cheese.

Now immediately I noticed the problem with Zeitgeist was the fact that the maker of this "documentary" has the religious knowledge of a poodle. He took many religious figures and gave them basic parables to Jesus Christ despite the fact the most of those aren't looked in depth or are just grossly inaccurate.

Take for example Jesus's Birthday. If you have common knowledge you will now that Jesus's birthday was set on December 25th to replace that of Bacchus. Jesus's birthday was not, in fact, on December 25th. Yet, he states throughout the film that his Birthday IS on December 25th. When in fact it says in the Bible that there were "shepherds in the field". This would indicate that Jesus was most likely born during the spring as well all should know that in that period Sheep did not graze in the winter.

Another example is the God Horus. Horus's story is pretty much inaccurate to hell other than the fact that he died and came to life again. You should all know that, in fact, there are many religious figures out there who have died and come back to life. Jesus wasn't the one who started the trend. Horus's story, if you ask any college professor or do...I dunno...basic Internet fact checking is not like he had said. Horus's mother was not a virgin as she had sex with a disembodied penis from Hours's father. He was never crucified. He had followers, but they were never called Disciples nor were there a specific numbers. It never really said he was born on December 25th.

Still you could look for basic rock hard parables to many religious figures, but if you look down at the stories and how detailed and different they are you learn that each one of them are unique in their own way and in others are not alike at all.

The movie rambles on about this while people soak it up like a sponge.

Then it moves on the the 9/11 conspiracy despite the fact that many of them have be disproved time and time again and only to assert them would make you look like a fool. The only way you don't look like a fool is that you tell this and share it with a person who is as dumb and gullible as you are. I'm not even going to try to disprove this as I have time and time again shown factual evidence that Loose Change is a load of rubbish. So if you really want some facts to it just look at some great websites who offer a different side of the story. A detailed explanation as to how the towers collapsed and how it was not perpetrated by greasy moose aliens who shot a rocket into the buildings because the US government wanted money.

Then it moves on to stuff about banking, but I've gotten so upset and frustrated with the long piece of junk that I stopped paying attention. According what other people have told me is that the US government and the governments of North America are trying to set up a money system similar to that of the Euro. This is to further create the plans to make a one world government even though that is a load of rubbish. The Euro was created for the most part because of practicality. So many European countries that live so close to each other have to change their money constantly because they live so bloody close. The Euro's pretty much fixed this. There were also some European Union stuff and crap like that, but I won't go into detail.

Anyway, if you take this film as fact then you are most likely the kind of person who sits at their desk with a point metal hat. However, if you have more questions about it then just use your basic Google search button therefore you can actually look that stuff up for yourself other than having someone else tell you that it's real.

It's a block of cheese, dude. Cheeeeeeese.