Gas Prices

[Michaelangelica]

According to a lecture, by environmentalist Tim Flannery (The Weather Makers), I attended last year; methane levels world wide have been dropping for 8 years. No one knows why.

NZ says 40% of its GHG emissions are due to burping cows.

Kangaroos don't burp and so their meat is a better deal GHG wise.
Scientists are looking at their gut flora to see if it can be used to reduce Cow's GHG emissions.

Be Green -Eat Kangaroo

[Moontanman]

Yes, methane is a socalled "fossil fuel" and it does result in cO2 then burned but it is easier to get than oil, cleaner than oil and could be a stepping stone to hydrogen. Hydrogen is not any where near as available as methane, it will take many years to bring significant levels of hydrogen to the market. Methane is here now and is a gas like hydrogen. changing from oil to hydrogen is a big step and we will have to depend on oil for a long time while we make the change. methane should have been started on a wide spread basis 40 years ago but it can still be used as a stepping stone while we change to another energy source. to go to hydrogen or battery power will require lots of electricity, Nuclear, solar, geothermal, all these will be necessary to make the switch to hydrogen but we don't have the capacity to generate even a fraction of the necessary hydrogen right now. Using Methane could do a lot to get us off the oil tit and allow us to change to other energy sources at the same time.

[modest]

Originally Posted by Moontanman

Yes, methane is a socalled "fossil fuel" and it does result in cO2 then burned but it is easier to get than oil, cleaner than oil and could be a stepping stone to hydrogen.

I agree with all.

In particular - I also think natural gas vehicles could be a stepping stone toward hydrogen. HCNG (Hydrogen / Natural Gas) fuel blends are apparently being supported by the Department of Energy. It is described here. Like you, I wish they would put a few more eggs into that basket. It looks like they are supporting private industry and funding a single HCNG filling station in Phoenix.

At the very least that will tell them if the infrastructure for a hydrogen / methane blend works. When it does then we will be one very real step closer to energy independence and significantly less pollution and carbon emission.

-modest

[Michaelangelica]

Does it take a lot of energy to extract hydrogen from water?

[Turtle]

Current price for Regular unleaded gasoline in my area of Vancouver USA, is $4.29 per gallon.

[REASON]

From a post I made in the My belief in Global Warming is getting shaky thread yesterday at 12:43 AM:

Originally Posted by REASON

.....If he really wants to know what's causing the dramatic spikes in gas prices maybe he should look into the Enron Loophole that was built in to the Commodity Futures Modernization Act of 2000, and the rampant increase in hedging and speculation in the market place that has followed. This piece of legislation was sponsered by Republican Phil Gramm of Texas, and signed into law by Bill Clinton.....

From MSNBC's Countdown with Keith Olbermann yesterday at 7:00 PM:

Countdown: Gas Pains and the Enron Loophole

[Moontanman]

Originally Posted by Michaelangelica

Does it take a lot of energy to extract hydrogen from water?

I guess you have to define "a lot" but yes it does take significant energy to separate hydrogen from water.

another thing to think about when using methane is that a methane powered car would be cheaper to build, I know currently that is not true but it's only because you have to convert a regular car to methane. A regular car has lots of things about it that allow it to use gasoline both efficiently and to curb pollution. A car from the 70's burning methane is significantly less polluting than a car from the same era. It stands to reason it would be easier to build methane cars that pollute less than it would to make gasoline cars that do. So lots of expensive things that go on a gasoline car could be left off a methane car. Not taken off a gasoline car then made to use methane.

[freeztar]

Originally Posted by Michaelangelica

Does it take a lot of energy to extract hydrogen from water?

Turtle's thread (http://hypography.com/forums/science...ytic-cell.html) covered this quite well.

I'm still contemplating the ANWR situation and it's effect on oil prices. This is an interesting link:
Arctic National Wildlife Refuge, 1002 Area, Petroleum Assessment, 1998, Including Economic Analysis

[modest]

Originally Posted by Michaelangelica

Does it take a lot of energy to extract hydrogen from water?

To calculate the energy needed to separate hydrogen and oxygen from water by electrolysis you can use Faraday's Laws of Electrolysis.

• where Q is the charge in Coulombs
• is the number of electrons
• and F is Faraday’s constant = 96,500 C/mol

One gram of hydrogen is approximately one mole.



Converting to energy requires:


I didn’t calculate the voltage but got it here



Or 0.033 kilowatt hours to produce one gram of hydrogen.

It is, however, very rare to use hydrogen from water like this. The vast majority of hydrogen is produced from hydrocarbons such as natural gas.

-modest

[InfiniteNow]

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