Keeping Pets Is Reprehensible

[Turtle]

Originally Posted by Cedars

Oh, Higher for sure. But is that because the number of dog bites has risen or because things are more expensive in general?

Because of higher expense I meant to imply. Since this is a factor in the debit column, i.e. costs that balance out benefits, then for my side of the debate, more is better.

Originally Posted by Cedars

] If aftercare is involved. And the majority of bites do not involve quarantine of the animal or euthanization at state cost.

Any wound requires aftercare, if only a bandaid. It all adds up. Here's the rules for quarantine in my state:

Originally Posted by Gov

Report all animal bites to the Sheriff’s Dept. or Police Department even if the animal’s owner is unknown. They will issue quarantine on cats, dogs or ferrets and help locate missing owners and animals. Vaccinated cats, dogs and ferrets can be quarantined at the home of the owner. Unvaccinated cats, dogs and ferrets must be quarantined at an isolation facility such as the Humane Society or a Veterinary office. Farm animals can be quarantined on the farm. The owner does have the option of having the cat, dog, ferret or farm animal euthanized and tested rather than quarantined. ...

http://www.co.sheboygan.wi.us/county...nimal_Bite.doc

Originally Posted by Cedars

But here we come up against the obstacle of opinion again. People who own and care about their pets do not consider it a waste or an excess.

If their opinion is counter to the evidence, then they need to support their position with evidence as well. When we can point to specific costs that indicate waste, it is not sufficient to say something 'enumerable' cancels that cost. Just the facts Mam.

Originally Posted by Cedars

To bring up the point of people losing jobs in the pet industry having to get another. So you shift one excess industry to another. If 1/2 of them end up working at mcdonalds (as an example), have you just shifted the excessive behavior (and its support) from one field to another? I mean really, how many industries (and their attached distribution) in the USA fall under producing to supply excessive behaviors?

Shall we end them all? Now wheres everyone going to work? And the reality is you will still have dogs needing support because Police use dogs, hunters use dogs, blind people use dogs, etc.

There is no need to assume the pet workers go to some other wastefull industry. They just as well can get jobs in green industries. The working animals aren't pets under the definition, so they're exempt from the categorization of wasteful reprehension.

[DFINITLYDISTRUBD]

Ya know...The thread title is "Keeping pets is reprehencible"...
As of yet I've only seen (correct me if I'm wrong, I won't mind a bit ) dogs and cats mentioned, defended, and(what's the word I want here it's the opposite of defended but not so brutal as attacked).

I've got two Turtles (one real, one virtual), one dog, two cats
and seven Tiger Oscars (mamma, pappa and Five chilluns)

Too be honest the cats are truely a waste and a nuicense. Besides the expence, the hairballs, and the damage caused by their claws....They have a particularly dangerous habbit of knocking me Cello over (dangerous because it makes me want to harm them VERY much) which due to space constraints (and a desire not to have to reset the sound post or worse) must be stored upright in stand in it's own lil corner. If not for the Wifey's fondness for them they would be so gone!

One of the Turtles was given to me on permanent loan By a friend who couldn't keep him (his daughter's and as soon as they can take him back I look forward to reuniting them....He is a cute lil bugger though.)...But I freely acknowlege that his existence as a pet is unneccessary and a waste.

The other Turtle just seems to like me for some reason or another but does provide hours of amusement and frustration with his riddle riddled posts

The fish again while educational and usually really good for stress relief also cause me some of the worst stress when they aren't well, or decide they don't like a tank mate for a stretch. So they also largely amount to a time, an emotional, and a financial drain with little return.

So to Mr. Turtle I tip my hat and admitt Guilty on 11 counts partial defeat in my efforts to defend pet keeping as more a useful coexistance than a hobbie of questionable morality. I still stand fast on my belief that my dog is family and therefore not a pet so I still plead not guilty on this count...just as soon as I can get my thoughts into useful order I shall be happy to justify my postion.

[Cedars]

Originally Posted by Turtle

Because of higher expense I meant to imply. Since this is a factor in the debit column, i.e. costs that balance out benefits, then for my side of the debate, more is better.

Keep in mind I halved the dog population and halved the food cost to try to come up with the comparison. Go ahead and double the costs, you still dont gain ground on costs vs benefit.

Originally Posted by Turtle

Any wound requires aftercare, if only a bandaid. It all adds up. Here's the rules for quarantine in my state:
http://www.co.sheboygan.wi.us/county...nimal_Bite.doc

When the hell did you move to wisconsin?

Originally Posted by Turtle

If their opinion is counter to the evidence, then they need to support their position with evidence as well. When we can point to specific costs that indicate waste, it is not sufficient to say something 'enumerable' cancels that cost. Just the facts Mam.

I didnt use the term enumerable.

Originally Posted by Turtle

There is no need to assume the pet workers go to some other wastefull industry. They just as well can get jobs in green industries. The working animals aren't pets under the definition, so they're exempt from the categorization of wasteful reprehension.

I didnt claim 100% would go onto flipping hamburgers at mcdonalds either. But you avoided how much industry (and their attached distribution) in the USA fall under producing to supply excessive behaviors.

So imagine all you want about workers going into greener industry, and I will imagine all I want about higher unemployment comp claims.

Employment Situation Summary

Working dogs do retire from their services and become companion animals.

[C1ay]

Originally Posted by DFINITLYDISTRUBD

Ya know...The thread title is "Keeping pets is reprehencible"...
As of yet I've only seen (correct me if I'm wrong, I won't mind a bit ) dogs and cats mentioned, defended, and(what's the word I want here it's the opposite of defended but not so brutal as attacked).

You must have skipped my first post in the thread then....

[Moontanman]

Originally Posted by Thunderbird

What the hell is wrong with this guy ?

Turtle picked it up at the nuclear waste site last week, it's why he wants to end keeping pets!

Hey Turtle, I know you aren't naive enough to think that when one industry ends the workers go on to other jobs. Most of the time workers, especially long term workers end up in jobs with less benefits and lower wages if they are lucky enough to get jobs at all. With the unemployment rates we have it would unlikely the end of the pet industry would mean simply moving to other jobs. Trust me, I've been in the middle of an industry ending and it's not pretty.

[Turtle]

Originally Posted by DFINITLYDISTRUBD

Ya know...The thread title is "Keeping pets is reprehencible"...
As of yet I've only seen (correct me if I'm wrong, I won't mind a bit ) dogs and cats mentioned, defended, and(what's the word I want here it's the opposite of defended but not so brutal as attacked).

Sorry; I didn't mean to discriminate against species of pets. More or less it's dogs that come up when searching for stats. Here's something on humans killed by pets & separated by cate-gory.

Human Deaths Caused By Animals

Animal Type
Per Year

Horses1
219

Dogs2
14

Reticulated pythons3
0.3

Burmese pythons3
0.1

Untitled Document

[quote=LunaTanaMana]

Originally Posted by DoubleDipping

I've got two Turtles (one real, one virtual), one dog, two cats
and seven Tiger Oscars (mamma, pappa and Five chilluns)
...
So to Mr. Turtle I tip my hat and admitt Guilty on 11 counts partial defeat in my efforts to defend pet keeping as more a useful coexistance than a hobbie of questionable morality. I still stand fast on my belief that my dog is family and therefore not a pet so I still plead not guilty on this count...just as soon as I can get my thoughts into useful order I shall be happy to justify my postion.

Acknowledged. We agree at least then that Keeping Pets is Relatively Reprehensible. At's all I'm asking for. (don't turtles carry viruses? )

Originally Posted by Cederinia

Keep in mind I halved the dog population and halved the food cost to try to come up with the comparison. Go ahead and double the costs, you still dont gain ground on costs vs benefit.

I missed that, and now I'm lost. We can't go arbitrarily changing numbers, or there is no chance to see what the balance really is. That's what I'm curious about; what are the hidden costs of keeping pets.

Originally Posted by Cedirss

When the hell did you move to wisconsin?

I do get around eh? It seems that is a record from Wisconsin for the State of Washington.

Originally Posted by Seadarrs

I didnt claim 100% would go onto flipping hamburgers at mcdonalds either. But you avoided how much industry (and their attached distribution) in the USA fall under producing to supply excessive behaviors.

Originally Posted by MTM

Hey Turtle, I know you aren't naive enough to think that when one industry ends the workers go on to other jobs. Most of the time workers, especially long term workers end up in jobs with less benefits and lower wages if they are lucky enough to get jobs at all. With the unemployment rates we have it would unlikely the end of the pet industry would mean simply moving to other jobs. Trust me, I've been in the middle of an industry ending and it's not pretty.

The other excessive industries can get their own thread. I think for a true view of what jobs are involved in the pet industry, we have to look at the jobs involved in the pet industry. But seriously, a clerk at Pet Smart is just a clerk and can clerk at any business. Since the green business is growing, new jobs must be out there. Similarly, the worker at the plastic factory cranking out rubber bones can just as well work squeezing out rubber gaskets for flex-fuel cars. The driver driving all those squeeky toys and food and litter and so on is just a driver, and may as well be driving trucks hauling recycled paper or taking wind-mill blades to assembly sites.

You get the picture.

[Michaelangelica]

My figures might be outdated But I think one million cats and one million dogs are "put down' by bored pet owners every year in the USA.

That is reprehensible.

[DFINITLYDISTRUBD]

Clay-You must have skipped my first post in the thread then....

No sir, I didn't....(just double checked to see if I missed something, I didn't)
Yes Mr. Turtle puts it out there quite clearly all types of critters kept as pets.
So yes you're quite right the originater of the thread while not mentioning any one particular type of pet covered the whole spectrum.

What I was trying to say is that the respondents to that first post have focused mainly on the canine and feline whilst mostly avoiding the subject of reptilian, amphibian, (I think I remember a bird or two being mentioned) avian, bovine (and numerous other "farm" critters which may or may not be both pet and/or food source be it milk, meat or egg) ,invertibrate (again I recall a mention of a bug or two), and various other aquarium dwellers etc..

As the intent of the title suggests that not any one type of pet keeping is somewhat immoral and wasteful (reprehencible) but all types, I was merely suggesting that there are more subjects to address if one wants to approach the issue at hand as a whole and properly debate it.

[DFINITLYDISTRUBD]

Turtle- Sorry; I didn't mean to discriminate against species of pets.

where did you do that?

Originally Posted by LunaTanaMana
I've got two Turtles (one real, one virtual), one dog, two cats
and seven Tiger Oscars (mamma, pappa and Five chilluns)
...
So to Mr. Turtle I tip my hat and admitt Guilty on 11 counts partial defeat in my efforts to defend pet keeping as more a useful coexistance than a hobbie of questionable morality. I still stand fast on my belief that my dog is family and therefore not a pet so I still plead not guilty on this count...just as soon as I can get my thoughts into useful order I shall be happy to justify my postion.

Huh uh! that ones mine!

[Turtle]

Originally Posted by DFINITLYDISTRUBD

where did you do that?
Huh uh! that ones mine!

I probably didn't; just covering my basis. Roger; fixed it.

Originally Posted by Mick

My figures might be outdated But I think one million cats and one million dogs are "put down' by bored pet owners every year in the USA.

That is reprehensible.

The recent housing bust has it on the rise. If people didn't keep so many pets, so many pets wouldn't be put down. It was wasteful all along, the pinch just is making it more obvious. [devil's advocate] [/devil's advocate

Originally Posted by MARK DAVIS

Dogs, cats feel the bite of home foreclosures
Abandoned by cash-strapped owners, rescue shelters forced to euthanize
...
With the arrival of spring and a deepening recession, shelters already bulging with pets that have lost their humans and homes through foreclosure now have the added strain of new litters of puppies and kittens.

Euthanization figures at shelters in two of metro Atlanta's largest counties are proof they have reached their limit.

"This," said animal rescuer Stacey Hall, "is as bad as I've ever seen it."

Bad all over, too. A national organization that charts animal issues reports that across the country shelters have overflowing inventories. Adding to rescue societies' problems: the escalating price of gas continues to cut into their budgets.