Plug in hybrids for the WIN!

[Zythryn]

All right, I just have to say I am really very very excited!
On Friday I picked up my Prius after getting a Plug in conversion.
Basically they installed a 5.4 kw Lithium battery which charges the Prius built in battery when it gets drained of power.
I can no longer track my mileage on the vehicles dash as the dash reading maxes out at 99.9mpg!
I love this
It is great for:
National Security
The environment (smog and such)
GW (electricity is cleaner than oil).

I should have a device which will enable me to track the fuel efficiency above 100mpg soon and will be happy to give anyone more details once that arrives if there is interest.
I hope the auto-makers can implement these PHEVs soon. In the long term a PHEV will still be a good option for some people. For most though I still think full EVs are the way to go.

Please note, PHEVs will give very different efficiencies depending upon distance driven between charges and style of driving.
My wife's work allows her to charge there. I expect this will change once PHEVs become more common though.

[Tormod]

Keep us posted on how it goes!

[Jimoin]

How much did the conversion cost?

[Zythryn]

Originally Posted by Jimoin

How much did the conversion cost?

The conversion cost 10k.
Definitely not priced for someone who either looks at fuel efficiency ONLY in terms of financial. Unless said person also believes, very firmly, that fuel will dramatically increase in price in the near future, or shortages/rationing will occur shortly.

For this person, it was well worth it

Tormod, I am still jealous of the Th!nk available in Norway. I would much rather have one of those. We could keep my wife's Prius for hauling and use the Th!nk for commuting.

I hear they are planning to sell their cars soon in the USA. I am looking forward to it

[Nitack]

Unfortunately I just read the chapter on Hybrids/plug in hybrids in Richard Mueller's Physics for Future Presidents. Until we figure out how to extend the life of batteries these are really just a feel good item.

I am actually really hating that book the closer I get to the end of it. The bastard is killing all of my environmental ideals as he explains the realities. Although I am an ardent environmentalist, I am a realist above all else.

[Zythryn]

Originally Posted by Nitack

Unfortunately I just read the chapter on Hybrids/plug in hybrids in Richard Mueller's Physics for Future Presidents. Until we figure out how to extend the life of batteries these are really just a feel good item.

Interesting view. Could you elaborate? I have not read the book myself.
How does a decrease in the amount of oil we use not a good thing?

[Nitack]

Originally Posted by Zythryn

Interesting view. Could you elaborate? I have not read the book myself.
How does a decrease in the amount of oil we use not a good thing?

Decreasing the amount of oil we use is a good thing, but it is not economically efficient. According to Mueller, a lot of Prius owners are about to get a nasty surprise. The batteries are only good for 700 recharges and then start to go. At that point you will be running entirely on gasoline and your millage will tank. The Prius battery is expensive to replace, more for a conversion to using all electric. Figure you use your plug in as a commuter car, you recharge it once per day. That means after about 2 years your going to have to replace the batteries. For a standard prius you did not save enough money on gas to pay for the new batteries. For the conversion, the price tag is higher.

You can decrease the amount of oil we use, but we will only see widespread adoption once we get more bang for our buck than with gasoline.

[Zythryn]

Originally Posted by Nitack

Decreasing the amount of oil we use is a good thing, but it is not economically efficient. According to Mueller, a lot of Prius owners are about to get a nasty surprise. The batteries are only good for 700 recharges and then start to go. At that point you will be running entirely on gasoline and your millage will tank. The Prius battery is expensive to replace, more for a conversion to using all electric. Figure you use your plug in as a commuter car, you recharge it once per day. That means after about 2 years your going to have to replace the batteries. For a standard prius you did not save enough money on gas to pay for the new batteries. For the conversion, the price tag is higher.

You can decrease the amount of oil we use, but we will only see widespread adoption once we get more bang for our buck than with gasoline.

I disagree with his numbers. Does he reference any statistics or data to show this trend?
Many of the original Prius batteries are still working smoothly although a number have been replaced. That is 10 years (11 actually).
Many owners at Toyota Prius Online Community with News, Forums, & Research - PriusChat have over 100,000 miles and are running on the original batteries just fine.
As for the add on battery packs, if they do fail in 2 years, good, they are under warranty at that point I'll definitely post in two years if mine should fail.

And, he seems to only take this from a financial standpoint. By the same logic (quite valid) I, nor anyone else should have bought the original Iphone as a better and cheaper version would come out later.
Yes, battery technology will improve in the future and cheaper and better options will be available.
But do you know why?
It is because some people want to encourage the technology. And if those early adopters were not willing to do so the technology advances would not come nearly as quickly.
And in the mean time:
I am helping the environment.
I am helping national security.
I am helping our economy (both by not buying oil and by supporting technological research).

As I said before, if the money is someone's ONLY concern, I wouldn't recommend it. If they are in a position to support the other reasons listed above and wish to do so, then it is a great buy.

And I must admit, a little part of me enjoys 'sticking it' to GM (I still email them asking when I can purchase an all electric car from them)
Just as if I buy a Th!nk I will be contacting Ford wishing they had had the foresight Th!nk did (before they sold their ownership in Th!nk and almost scrapped all the Th!nk cars they were leasing).

[Jimoin]

I found this bit of information before I asked my above question but could not remember where from, it has popped up again somewhere else but it answers any fears about batteries:

2. Hybrid batteries need to be replaced.

Worries about an expensive replacement of a hybrid car's batteries continue to nag many potential buyers. Those worries are unfounded. By keeping the charge between 40 percent and 60 percent—never fully charged, yet never fully drained—carmakers have greatly extended the longevity of nickel metal hydride batteries.

The standard warranty on hybrid batteries and other components is between 80,000 and 100,000 miles, depending on the manufacturer and your location. But that doesn't mean the batteries will die at 100,000 miles. The U.S. Department of Energy stopped its tests of hybrid battery packs—when the capacity remained almost like new—after 160,000 miles. A taxi driver in Vancouver drove his Toyota Prius more than 200,000 miles in 25 months, and after that time and mileage the batteries remained strong.

http://www.hybridcars.com/decision/t...rid-myths.html

Excuse #2: “Hybrid technology and batteries are unproven. I’m waiting for the technology to become more stable. Otherwise, I may get stuck with a gas-electric lemon.”

The first hybrids were introduced in Japan in 1997, and in the United States in 2000. That’s a lot of real-world durability testing. So far, the batteries are outlasting the rest of the vehicle. Reported cases of electric or battery problems have been rare. In addition, hybrid systems come with an eight- or 10-year warranty,. Nearly every major car company, from Porsche to Volvo, is investing in hybrids. Adding an electric motor to the gasoline engine is not rocket science—and is about the only practical way to get the big boost in efficiency and reduction in emissions soon to be required for 21st century motoring.

http://www.hybridcars.com/economics/...uy-hybrid.html

How often do hybrid batteries need replacing? Is replacement expensive and disposal an environmental problem?

The hybrid battery packs are designed to last for the lifetime of the vehicle, somewhere between 150,000 and 200,000 miles, probably a whole lot longer. The warranty covers the batteries for between eight and ten years, depending on the carmaker.

Battery toxicity is a concern, although today's hybrids use NiMH batteries, not the environmentally problematic rechargeable nickel cadmium. "Nickel metal hydride batteries are benign. They can be fully recycled," says Ron Cogan, editor of the Green Car Journal. Toyota and Honda say that they will recycle dead batteries and that disposal will pose no toxic hazards. Toyota puts a phone number on each battery, and they pay a $200 "bounty" for each battery to help ensure that it will be properly recycled.

There's no definitive word on replacement costs because they are almost never replaced. According to Toyota, since the Prius first went on sale in 2000, they have not replaced a single battery for wear and tear.

http://www.hybridcars.com/faq.html#battery

I know it's only one (biased) source however it has more basis than a lot of the FUD going around.

Grr, still can't post links, must be the oldest regular who still can't post links...