Watch this,.. its amazing

[Jimoin]

Originally Posted by freeztar

You're being obtuse Cedars.

Seemingly though, you are too.

The majority of people find this heartwarming & inspirational to watch. That a lot of people might not is fine, but you actually posted about your lack of endearment which attracted the criticism I think.

[freeztar]

Perhaps you misunderstand, Jimoin. I'm not being critical of the music. I'm being critical of the crowd reaction (laughing). Besides being very rude to the performer, it shows the human characteristic of pre-judgment. I was just trying to gain some insight into this, but since I've unintentionally created misconceptions and debate, I'll bow out now...

[Cedars]

Originally Posted by freeztar

I didn't say every old and poor person can sing. You're being obtuse Cedars.

No I wasnt being obtuse and I dont appreciate the implication.

There was no comparison to Aretha or Ella and I pointed that out. So you switched gears and implied it had to do with poverty. I didnt assume Aretha or Ella were 'po people, you did. Book by its cover? Your choice of words. Sorry state of the crowd? Your no better.

You sure you applied the word obtuse to the correct person in this thread?

[Jimoin]

Debate is good, I think it helps everyone understand why we feel what we feel better

By saying you don't watch American Idol, perhaps it's also safe to assume you don't or haven't seen many of these whole shows either, so perhaps this is the link you're missing.

A large volume of these acts that come on the show are a total joke, they have *no* talent, quite often make people laugh and ponder if they are having a joke at everyones expense or not.

Sometimes contestants are having a joke (i.e. they know they are terrible), but often you'll get someone that quite frankly, doesn't look like a performer at all (like that lady) and are genuinly on the show to display what they think is top quality talent - but it isn't, it's often so bad it's funny.

People that watch the show often get as much entertainment out of the failures. It's almost sad to say (and I know this is the bit your pointing out I suppose) but when you see someone like her come on, a little crazy, poorly presented etc, you expect a failure. It's like any clip on funniest home videos, you can usually see what's going to happen & that's half the fun.

So... the fact that she seemingly is an awesome singer goes against all that usually happens, it's a surprise and it *does* make us question our presumptions, in a good way. While it did warm my heart, there was an overwhelming sadness that somoene of her talent has been locked away for 47 years because she either looks funny, is shy or never had the chance.

It seems she's due for a record contract now - 12million views on Youtube!

http://www.smh.com.au/news/technolog...475033673.html

[freeztar]

I guess I can't bow out yet.

Since this was the second mention of my use of obtuse, I decided to look it up to make sure I was using it correctly. It appears I was mistaken in thinking that this word had a additional definition that it indeed does not. So, my deepest apologies, Cedars. I certainly did not mean to imply that at all.
I think I was looking for something along the lines of "you're misrepresenting what I said". I don't know why I didn't just say that. Looks like I am indeed the obtuse one.

[freeztar]

Originally Posted by Jimoin

Debate is good, I think it helps everyone understand why we feel what we feel better

I agree.

By saying you don't watch American Idol, perhaps it's also safe to assume you don't or haven't seen many of these whole shows either, so perhaps this is the link you're missing.

A large volume of these acts that come on the show are a total joke, they have *no* talent, quite often make people laugh and ponder if they are having a joke at everyones expense or not.

Sometimes contestants are having a joke (i.e. they know they are terrible), but often you'll get someone that quite frankly, doesn't look like a performer at all (like that lady) and are genuinly on the show to display what they think is top quality talent - but it isn't, it's often so bad it's funny.

I think you hit the nail on the head. I do know about the joke aspects of the show, but I guess I didn't think about it. Most of the times I have watched the show, it was a finale or season ending show.

People that watch the show often get as much entertainment out of the failures. It's almost sad to say (and I know this is the bit your pointing out I suppose)

Exactly.

but when you see someone like her come on, a little crazy, poorly presented etc, you expect a failure. It's like any clip on funniest home videos, you can usually see what's going to happen & that's half the fun.

So... the fact that she seemingly is an awesome singer goes against all that usually happens, it's a surprise and it *does* make us question our presumptions, in a good way. While it did warm my heart, there was an overwhelming sadness that somoene of her talent has been locked away for 47 years because she either looks funny, is shy or never had the chance.

Indeed. I guess it just gets to me sometimes. I didn't laugh before she started. I couldn't imagine being that disrespectful prior to giving someone a chance. Perhaps it's because I'm a musician. Perhaps it's because I didn't have the "crowd mentality" when watching. I'm not sure, but in any case I found it disturbing.
I think you're right that it makes us question our assumptions, which is a good thing. I'd argue that when our assumptions are challenged so drastically, we often ascribe more significance to such events. Do you agree?

It seems she's due for a record contract now - 12million views on Youtube!

Singing Scottish spinster a global sensation - web - Technology - smh.com.au

Good for her!

[Cedars]

Originally Posted by freeztar

I guess I can't bow out yet.

Since this was the second mention of my use of obtuse, I decided to look it up to make sure I was using it correctly. It appears I was mistaken in thinking that this word had a additional definition that it indeed does not. So, my deepest apologies, Cedars. I certainly did not mean to imply that at all.
I think I was looking for something along the lines of "you're misrepresenting what I said". I don't know why I didn't just say that. Looks like I am indeed the obtuse one.

I am truly grateful that it was a misapplication of the word. Text makes it easy to mis-interpret meaning. Thats why I tried to use the smilies and such to indicate my text was meant light-heartedly.

When I saw your first post, I thought you were just taking that position to exercise the con pov. I almost didnt respond to it, but thought, what the heck.

Wow, did this blow up in both our faces. Freezee If I made you get defensive I apologize. Lets carry on with discussion and keep trying to communicate.

OK. Back to the show.

[Cedars]

Originally Posted by Jimoin

A large volume of these acts that come on the show are a total joke, they have *no* talent, quite often make people laugh and ponder if they are having a joke at everyones expense or not.

Sometimes contestants are having a joke (i.e. they know they are terrible), but often you'll get someone that quite frankly, doesn't look like a performer at all (like that lady) and are genuinly on the show to display what they think is top quality talent - but it isn't, it's often so bad it's funny.

So... the fact that she seemingly is an awesome singer goes against all that usually happens, it's a surprise and it *does* make us question our presumptions, in a good way. While it did warm my heart, there was an overwhelming sadness that somoene of her talent has been locked away for 47 years because she either looks funny, is shy or never had the chance.

This is why I usually dont watch the beginning of the series and wait for the bad acts to be weeded out.

But then this example, Susan Boyle, also shows that when our expectations are not met, the crowd stood up and cheered and bravo'd her and emphasized their "wow we were like really wrong" and made up for the skepticism with enthusiasm. Susan Boyle left that stage on top of the world. I have great doubt the cheers and ovations would have been given if she would have been the Cookie cutter good looks Modest mentioned. There would have been no WOW.

[freeztar]

Originally Posted by Cedars

But then this example, Susan Boyle, also shows that when our expectations are not met, the crowd stood up and cheered and bravo'd her and emphasized their "wow we were like really wrong" and made up for the skepticism with enthusiasm. Susan Boyle left that stage on top of the world. I have great doubt the cheers and ovations would have been given if she would have been the Cookie cutter good looks Modest mentioned. There would have been no WOW.

Indeed!

It seems you would answer "yes" to my last question?

---

The link Modest posted was extremely moving. Of course, the music is awesome to begin with, but Paul really blows everyone away.It's different than Susan's crowd reaction though.
Maybe it's his serious (nervous) demeanor?

[Thunderbird]

I showed the clips to a friend last night and she just said "So they can sing, what's the big deal."
She had never followed the show,,, so she had no real context.

The same thing happens when there is a big discovery in science..... when the general public really does not “get it” because they have not been following along to gain a perspective on the lead up to the discovery.

An appreciation of discovering art is the same. We hear great singers all the time, but we forget how rare great talent really is. It re-enchants music by allowing the audience to participate in the process of discovering great talent.