[Turtle]

Originally Posted by CraigD

I voted “once/year”, but my actual habit it to kite every day for a few weeks every year, usually in the months of March-May.

Excellent!

Originally Posted by Craig

Not that rockets aren’t fun and cool and all, but if your goal is just to launch a kite without running, the easiest scheme I know is to use some sort of string puller.

My goal was to lure closet kiters like yourself into my web of thread using some facetious hyperbole. I have no intention of using rockets actually.

For myself, if I can't lay out some line and just toss the kite into the wind and have it go, then there's not enough wind.

Originally Posted by Craig

Technically, FAR 101 is a regulation, not a statute – an interpretation by FAA administrators of their general statutory duty to keep aircraft from crashing. The 500’ rule only applies to kites over 5#, with sting stonger than 50#.

You can get a waiver for these rules by phoning your nearest FAA ATC of FSS (unless you’re near a major airport, or city, your local FAA center is likely a Flight Service Station, not an Air Trafic Control center) and telling them what you’re up to and when. I did this a few times when I was trying to get a kite up really high. The FSS people were very friendly and accommodating, seeming interested. Also, they actually do warn planes and copters you’re there, which caused me to get visited by a lot of light planes curious to see if they could spot my kite and determine its altitude.

Mmmm...I hadn't read the rules in a while and now I have more questions than answers. Do they mail you a Waiver, or give it verbally?

In reading the link I saw this:

Originally Posted by gpoaccess.gov

No person may operate an unshielded moored balloon or kite more than 150 feet above the surface of the earth unless, at least 24 hours before beginning the operation, he gives the following information to the FAA ATC facility that is nearest to the place of intended operation:

Now it looks like the limit is 150 feet! What is 'shielding?'

Then this:

Originally Posted by gpoaccess.gov

(a) Except as provided in paragraph (b) of this section, no person may operate a moored balloon or kite—

(1) Less than 500 feet from the base of any cloud;

Say what!?

and

Originally Posted by gpoaccess.gov

b) No person may operate a moored balloon or kite between sunrise and sunset unless its mooring lines have colored pennants or streamers attached at not more than 50 foot intervals beginning at 150 feet above the surface of the earth and visible for at least one mile.

I have never in my life seen anyone do this!

Next thing we know we'll need a Waiver to wipe our bums!

[Turtle]

Originally Posted by CraigD

Technically, FAR 101 is a regulation, not a statute – an interpretation by FAA administrators of their general statutory duty to keep aircraft from crashing.

The more I chew on this, the less wind in my sails. Sucked every last bit of enjoyment I find (found) in kiting right out of me. Don't anyone hold their breath on me following through with putting the video camera aloft. I'm no lawyer, but it sounds to me like a person could be prosecuted for violating these rules/regulations/statutes/legaleese. Not only that, but it clearly puts all these kite festivals in direct violation.

Of course, I just as soon turn 'em in as talk to them as all the politicizing, commercialism, quarrelling, one-upmanship, etcetera is what drove me away from the organized kiting in the first place.

Well, major bummer. Good thing Ben Franklin did his experiments before they were illegal.

[CraigD]

Originally Posted by Turtle

Mmmm...I hadn't read the rules [FAR 101] in a while and now I have more questions than answers. Do they mail you a Waiver, or give it verbally?

Where I was, semi-rural southern West Virginia, I just talked on the phone for a while, and was given the go-ahead. This involved uncontrolled airspace covering just a few airstrips (the one with the FSS, Bluefield, large enough for private jets and a commuter airline), where FAA control is “advisory only” – it’s a good idea to talk and listen to the guys in the tower, but you’re not legally required to – in fact, you’re not legally required to even have a radio or radar transponder in an aircraft that doesn’t fly in controlled airspace. Kites, it appears, are more strictly regulated than planes!

Things may have changes since I had my dealings with the FAA over kites in the ‘80s, but I suspect not much. FAA employee want to be friendly and encourage people to tell them when they’re doing something that might hurt an aircraft – otherwise, people will just do whatever they want without telling them, and they won’t be able to warn pilots about it.

[Turtle]

Originally Posted by CraigD

Kites, it appears, are more strictly regulated than planes!

That is a sad state of affairs.

Care to hazard a guess what 'shielding' on a kite is per the regs.?

[Turtle]

The more I think on this the angrier I get about how completely arbitrary and downright stupid( ) some of these regs are.

I still want to know what you all think 'shielding' is on a kite, but in the mean time here's a little math exercise for everyone. According to the regs >>>

Originally Posted by gpoaccess.gov

b) No person may operate a moored balloon or kite between sunrise and sunset unless its mooring lines have colored pennants or streamers attached at not more than 50 foot intervals beginning at 150 feet above the surface of the earth and visible for at least one mile.

What is the color and minimum size of a streamer or penant in order for it to be visible from a mile away? (Ass-ume 20/20 'standard' vision)

Now given that measurement, what effect will it (they) have on the flying line and kite?

Boy am I cheesed!!!

[Turtle]

Aha! I consulted with my peeps and we may be able to avoid all the red-tape. To whit, section 101.1

(2) Except as provided for in §101.7, any kite that weighs more than 5 pounds and is intended to be flown at the end of a rope or cable.

So since Beatrix weighs in at 4 pounds, only this restriction applies. 101.7

§ 101.7 Hazardous operations.
top
(a) No person may operate any moored balloon, kite, unmanned rocket, or unmanned free balloon in a manner that creates a hazard to other persons, or their property.

(b) No person operating any moored balloon, kite, unmanned rocket, or unmanned free balloon may allow an object to be dropped therefrom, if such action creates a hazard to other persons or their property.

(Sec. 6(c), Department of Transportation Act (49 U.S.C. 1655(c)))

[Doc. No. 12800, 39 FR 22252, June 21, 1974]

The operation is now conditionally back on hold. Speaking of which, finding good weather to fly, that is wind, makes giving a 24 hour notice an act in futility.

I'm tending to think in terms of reconfiguring Bee as a rhomboid and have a preliminary design in mind for a hub-block for the cross-stick crossing. When I built the kite I didn't want to stop and make a dowel die so I bought the commercial 3/8" dowels which come in 4 foot lengths, and this set the rest of the kite dimensions. The hub-block will let me span the greater-than 4 foot throw and still use commercial dowels.

And what the H is 'kite shielding?'

[CraigD]

While we’re watercoolering on kites, the threat they may pose to aircraft, our FAA’s regulatory labors to avert them, and Turtle’s labors to make sense of FAA regulations, I thought I’d throw my own “urban myth” into the thread.

Ca. 1980, a popular light helicopter (Avi-Caproni – I can’t find an online image) with an unusual rotor control arrangement in which, rather than the usual exposed linkages between the swash plate and rotors, all linkages were contained within the hollow mast, was promoted by noting that such an arrangement could not be impaired by being wrapped in kite string. After one of my then bosses, an enthusiastic helicopter pilot, got hold of one of these (with the vague intention of buying it), I read a review of it that related a tale of a large US navy helicopter crashing near shore off Nags Head, NC, after its rotor mast and exposed linkages were wrapped so tightly with monofilament kite string snagged from one of the beach’s many high-performance kites that its hydraulic power-assisted controls were unable to move the linkages.

Later, when I lived near Nags Head, working at one of the areas big sellers of kites (Kitty Hawk Kites, better known for hang gliders), I asked many people about this story. Several believed it was true, but none were witnesses, nor knew someone who was a witness, leaving me the impression that the story might be an aviation/urban myth.

Every helicopter pilot I’ve met find the story plausible, and say they avoid kites like death itself, but none had first-hand knowledge of a helicopter crash caused by kite (or other tethered airborne thing). I’ve found nothing with internet searches.

Is the “helicopter downed with kite string” story an aviation/urban myth?

Originally Posted by Turtle

And what the H is 'kite shielding?'

I’ve only the faintest imaginings. More significantly, I think, why would hitting a “shielded” kite be preferable to hitting an “unshielded” one?

[TheBigDog]

I have an idea. Lets set a "World Hypography Kite Flying Day". Hypographers around the globe can fly a kite that day, and come back here with stories and pictures.

Turtle, would you do the honors of selecting a day?

As Mary Poppins would have us sing...

Oh, oh, oh!
Let's go fly a kite
Up to the highest height!
Let's go fly a kite and send it soaring
Up through the atmosphere
Up where the air is clear
Oh, let's go fly a kite!

Bill

[Turtle]

Originally Posted by TheBigDog

I have an idea. Lets set a "World Hypography Kite Flying Day". Hypographers around the globe can fly a kite that day, and come back here with stories and pictures.

Turtle, would you do the honors of selecting a day?

As Mary Poppins would have us sing...

Oh, oh, oh!
Let's go fly a kite
Up to the highest height!
Let's go fly a kite and send it soaring
Up through the atmosphere
Up where the air is clear
Oh, let's go fly a kite!

Bill

My pleasure. As wind is often not cooperative with our schedules, I suggest the first week of the New Year, Tuesday January 1st through Friday January 11th.

I'm a bit back on the jag as I picked up some 3/8" dowels to rework my big box kite into a rhomboid. The kite is pictured in post #32 in the square box configuration, and since that photo I removed the fabric and sewed up the rips. I need to paint the main struts before stapling the fabric back on & then I will determine a ratio for the rhombus. I'm thinking of starting with the Golden ratio. Make the kite too flat and it will get too unstable for any advantage gained in lift power. We'll see.

Anybody in? The date OK for a first World Hypography Kite Flying Event?

[TheBigDog]

Originally Posted by Turtle

My pleasure. As wind is often not cooperative with our schedules, I suggest the first week of the New Year, Tuesday January 1st through Friday January 11th.

I'm a bit back on the jag as I picked up some 3/8" dowels to rework my big box kite into a rhomboid. The kite is pictured in post #32 in the square box configuration, and since that photo I removed the fabric and sewed up the rips. I need to paint the main struts before stapling the fabric back on & then I will determine a ratio for the rhombus. I'm thinking of starting with the Golden ratio. Make the kite too flat and it will get too unstable for any advantage gained in lift power. We'll see.

Anybody in? The date OK for a first World Hypography Kite Flying Event?

There should be one clear day in that span here on the north coast. I will post my pictures here.

Bill