Survival Wagon Idea - Recreation Or Reality TV

[Turtle]

Originally Posted by Moontanman

hey dude, how did the bigfoot hunt go? Have you made your report? Or did I miss it?

The Sasquatch hunt was combined with the wagon-route-scout, varve exploration, tailed-frog hunt, and all-around forest expedition of Saturday April 12th, in the year of our favorite monkey, 2008. All my vids are here: >> YouTube - Cathlapootl's Channel

We saw no evidence of Sasquatch. Since the trip, more snow has fallen and the freezing level dropped, so the roads are likely even less accessible now to driving. Time to finger out how to make sled runners for the wagon with the bridge sections.

[Moontanman]

Originally Posted by Turtle

The Sasquatch hunt was combined with the wagon-route-scout, varve exploration, tailed-frog hunt, and all-around forest expedition of Saturday April 12th, in the year of our favorite monkey, 2008. All my vids are here: >> YouTube - Cathlapootl's Channel

We saw no evidence of Sasquatch. Since the trip, more snow has fallen and the freezing level dropped, so the roads are likely even less accessible now to driving. Time to finger out how to make sled runners for the wagon with the bridge sections.

SNOW! Where do you live? The south pole? it's so hot here (80 degrees Fahrenheit with high humidity) I can barely go outside and mow grass, my dogs are lying around like road kill. Maybe you should hunt here, (Kinda like loosing a dime and night and looking for it under street lights several feet away because the light is better!) I feel for you, hooray for the sub tropics

[Turtle]

Originally Posted by Moontanman

SNOW! Where do you live? The south pole? it's so hot here (80 degrees Fahrenheit with high humidity) I can barely go outside and mow grass, my dogs are lying around like road kill. Maybe you should hunt here, (Kinda like loosing a dime and night and looking for it under street lights several feet away because the light is better!) I feel for you, hooray for the sub tropics

I live in one of the most varied, complex, and unique environments that anyone could hope to ask for on this little blue ball of ours. Succinctly geographically speaking, I live in the metropolitan area of Vancouver Washington USA. As the crows fly, ~ 40 miles from where I shot the wagon route videos in the Gifford Pinchot National Forest.

This is weather not unheard of here, but it is not business as usual. Record snowpacks throughout much of the Cascade range of mountains for as long as we have records, and it has not yet started to melt and in fact more is falling as I type. Just North of where I shot the varve videos is a couple of reservoirs on the North Fork Lewis R. which were drawn down earlier in the season to make room for snow melt, and they are sittin' just as dry now as then because the snow ain't meltin'.

All the more reason to have a survival wagon if'n ya axe me.

[nkt]

Hi Turtle,

I'm still working on the "perfect" design. It won't be perfect, of course, and everyone will want different things from it. However, I've invented a few new ideas that will add to the design quite substantively. Currently all on paper downstairs. I shall finish up the sketches and post them up for everyone's (hopeful) delight and positive criticism, hopefully before the end of the Bank Holiday Monday (aka tomorrow).

[Turtle]

Originally Posted by nkt

Hi Turtle,

I'm still working on the "perfect" design. It won't be perfect, of course, and everyone will want different things from it. However, I've invented a few new ideas that will add to the design quite substantively. Currently all on paper downstairs. I shall finish up the sketches and post them up for everyone's (hopeful) delight and positive criticism, hopefully before the end of the Bank Holiday Monday (aka tomorrow).

That's the ticket!

Lately I can't get the picture out of my mind, when it comes to people & wheels, of that Johnny Hart cartoon BC, with the guy always shooting around standing on the axle of a single stone wheel.

[Racoon]

Heres a good site that tells you what exactly you probably need Turtle :
Post-economic collapse emergency survival list: Food Storage Ideas & Misc | Wake Up From Your Slumber

*Note* number 100 - Goats


Food Storage Ideas

Family Size: 1

Time frame 1 year

Wheat...................175 lbs
Flour...................20 lbs
Quinoa..................30 lbs
Rolled Oats.............50 lbs
White Rice..............80 lbs
Pearled Barley..........5 lbs
Spaghetti Or Macaroni...40 lbs
Dry Beans...............45 lbs
Dry Soy Beans...........2 lbs
Dry Split Peas..........2 lbs
Dry Lentils.............2 lbs
Dry Soup Mix............7 lbs
Peanut Butter...........1 qt
Almont Butter...........1 qt
Nonfat Dry Milk.........14 lbs
Granulated Sugar........40 lbs
Molasses................1 lb
Honey...................3 lbs
Beef Gelatin............1 lb
Salt....................8 lbs
Dry Yeast...............0.5 lbs
Water...................28 gal.

Multiply items 1x per additional family size

_______________________

Found the list on a web site, here's the list for posterity

100 Items to Disappear First

1. Generators (Good ones cost dearly. Gas storage, risky. Noisy...target of thieves; maintenance etc.)
2. Water Filters/Purifiers
3. Portable Toilets
4. Seasoned Firewood. Wood takes about 6 - 12 months to become dried, for home uses.
5. Lamp Oil, Wicks, Lamps (First Choice: Buy CLEAR oil. If scarce, stockpile ANY!)
6. Coleman Fuel. Impossible to stockpile too much.
7. Guns, Ammunition, Pepper Spray, Knives, Clubs, Bats & Slingshots.
8. Hand-can openers, & hand egg beaters, whisks.
9. Honey/Syrups/white, brown sugar
10. Rice - Beans - Wheat
11. Vegetable Oil (for cooking) Without it food burns/must be boiled etc.,)
12. Charcoal, Lighter Fluid (Will become scarce suddenly)
13. Water Containers (Urgent Item to obtain.) Any size. Small: HARD CLEAR PLASTIC ONLY - note - food grade if for drinking.
16. Propane Cylinders (Urgent: Definite shortages will occur.
17. Survival Guide Book.
18. Mantles: Aladdin, Coleman, etc. (Without this item, longer-term lighting is difficult.)
19. Baby Supplies: Diapers/formula. ointments/aspirin, etc.
20. Washboards, Mop Bucket w/wringer (for Laundry)
21. Cookstoves (Propane, Coleman & Kerosene)
22. Vitamins
23. Propane Cylinder Handle-Holder (Urgent: Small canister use is dangerous without this item)
24. Feminine Hygiene/Haircare/Skin products.
25. Thermal underwear (Tops & Bottoms)
26. Bow saws, axes and hatchets, Wedges (also, honing oil)
27. Aluminum Foil Reg. & Heavy Duty (Great Cooking and Barter Item)
28. Gasoline Containers (Plastic & Metal)
29. Garbage Bags (Impossible To Have Too Many).
30. Toilet Paper, Kleenex, Paper Towels
31. Milk - Powdered & Condensed (Shake Liquid every 3 to 4 months)
32. Garden Seeds (Non-Hybrid) (A MUST)
33. Clothes pins/line/hangers (A MUST)
34. Coleman's Pump Repair Kit
35. Tuna Fish (in oil)
36. Fire Extinguishers (or..large box of Baking Soda in every room)
37. First aid kits
38. Batteries (all sizes...buy furthest-out for Expiration Dates)
39. Garlic, spices & vinegar, baking supplies
40. Big Dogs (and plenty of dog food)
41. Flour, yeast & salt
42. Matches. {"Strike Anywhere" preferred.) Boxed, wooden matches will go first
43. Writing paper/pads/pencils, solar calculators
44. Insulated ice chests (good for keeping items from freezing in Wintertime.)
45. Workboots, belts, Levis & durable shirts
46. Flashlights/LIGHTSTICKS & torches, "No. 76 Dietz" Lanterns
47. Journals, Diaries & Scrapbooks (jot down ideas, feelings, experience; Historic Times)
48. Garbage cans Plastic (great for storage, water, transporting - if with wheels)
49. Men's Hygiene: Shampoo, Toothbrush/paste, Mouthwash/floss, nail clippers, etc
50. Cast iron cookware (sturdy, efficient)
51. Fishing supplies/tools
52. Mosquito coils/repellent, sprays/creams
53. Duct Tape
54. Tarps/stakes/twine/nails/rope/spikes
55. Candles
56. Laundry Detergent (liquid)
57. Backpacks, Duffel Bags
58. Garden tools & supplies
59. Scissors, fabrics & sewing supplies
60. Canned Fruits, Veggies, Soups, stews, etc.
61. Bleach (plain, NOT scented: 4 to 6% sodium hypochlorite)
62. Canning supplies, (Jars/lids/wax)
63. Knives & Sharpening tools: files, stones, steel
64. Bicycles...Tires/tubes/pumps/chains, etc
65. Sleeping Bags & blankets/pillows/mats
66. Carbon Monoxide Alarm (battery powered)
67. Board Games, Cards, Dice
68. d-con Rat poison, MOUSE PRUFE II, Roach Killer
69. Mousetraps, Ant traps & cockroach magnets
70. Paper plates/cups/utensils (stock up, folks)
71. Baby wipes, oils, waterless & Antibacterial soap (saves a lot of water)
72. Rain gear, rubberized boots, etc.
73. Shaving supplies (razors & creams, talc, after shave)
74. Hand pumps & siphons (for water and for fuels)
75. Soysauce, vinegar, bullions/gravy/soupbase
76. Reading glasses
77. Chocolate/Cocoa/Tang/Punch (water enhancers)
78. "Survival-in-a-Can"
79. Woolen clothing, scarves/ear-muffs/mittens
80. Boy Scout Handbook, / also Leaders Catalog
81. Roll-on Window Insulation Kit (MANCO)
82. Graham crackers, saltines, pretzels, Trail mix/Jerky
83. Popcorn, Peanut Butter, Nuts
84. Socks, Underwear, T-shirts, etc. (extras)
85. Lumber (all types)
86. Wagons & carts (for transport to and from)
87. Cots & Inflatable mattress's
88. Gloves: Work/warming/gardening, etc.
89. Lantern Hangers
90. Screen Patches, glue, nails, screws,, nuts & bolts
91. Teas
92. Coffee
93. Cigarettes
94. Wine/Liquors (for bribes, medicinal, etc,)
95. Paraffin wax
96. Glue, nails, nuts, bolts, screws, etc.
97. Chewing gum/candies
98. Atomizers (for cooling/bathing)
99. Hats & cotton neckerchiefs
100. Goats/chickens

[DFINITLYDISTRUBD]

Quite the lists! With a fair amount of items that really aren't necessary for survival! (Generator, calculator, etc.)

5. Lamp Oil, Wicks, Lamps (First Choice: Buy CLEAR oil. If scarce, stockpile ANY!)

Veggie oil is just as good. Rope, old cotton T-shirts, worn out socks, and denim will suffice as wick material. Also a pop can makes a handy lantern/cooker/heater when combined with the previously mentioned materials. Simply turn the pull tab around so it's opening is over the mouth of the can partially fill with the oil, soak your wick material and insert it into the can then secure it through the pull tab, light it... Voila! light and heat.
By the way veggie oil will burn in an oil/kerosene lantern.

12. Charcoal, Lighter Fluid (Will become scarce suddenly)

veggie oil works well for this purpose also.(lighting charcoal)

[Turtle]

Originally Posted by DFINITLYDISTRUBD

Quite the lists! With a fair amount of items that really aren't necessary for survival! (Generator, calculator, etc.)
Veggie oil is just as good. Rope, old cotton T-shirts, worn out socks, and denim will suffice as wick material. Also a pop can makes a handy lantern/cooker/heater when combined with the previously mentioned materials. Simply turn the pull tab around so it's opening is over the mouth of the can partially fill with the oil, soak your wick material and insert it into the can then secure it through the pull tab, light it... Voila! light and heat.
By the way veggie oil will burn in an oil/kerosene lantern.
veggie oil works well for this purpose also.(lighting charcoal)

I have minor quibbles too, but it's not the worst list of 100 things I've ever seen. They get some slack on some items by titling it 'First 100 things to disappear', but then they 86 the wagon at #86. How ya gonna carry all that crap without a wagon bruh?

Speakin' of crap, I think the portable toilet is not a particularly good pick. I think just a toilet seat is enough & then set it on a bucket or over your trench latrine & make your deposit.

I love this one:

Originally Posted by List

94. Wine/Liquors (for bribes, medicinal, etc,)

Hell, everything on the list can be a bribe.

Originally Posted by List

7. Guns, Ammunition, Pepper Spray, Knives, Clubs, Bats & Slingshots.

My #7 trumps your #94, and I'm drunk enough to prove it!

[DFINITLYDISTRUBD]

My #7 trumps your #94, and I'm drunk enough to prove it!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAhahahahahaha hahahahaHahahaha!

[nkt]

Ah yes. Reminds me of the first thing I said when I heard a news report saying that in famine-struck Africa, an AK47 could be swapped for a chicken or $10. "But if you have the AK, then you simply take the chicken!"

Ok, I'm not sure how to get the bit of paper onto the internet in the most effective manor. I write pretty small and messy, so I'll outline the main points here in text, and any questions I'll answer when asked.

I designed this to be an all terrain vehicle. It won't be the best on any terrain, but it will get you there, and back, where anything but a hovercraft or one of those neat German waterboat cars from WWII (as seen in the new Indie movie) would fail.

This "cart" will ride like a recumbent/sit-on tricycle with fairly good efficiency, on hard, fairly flat roads, due to the thin hard wheels. On steep or softer surfaces, it will not sink, despite the thin hard wheels, and can be "carted". On snow, the wheels come off, and it can be dragged on the built-in skis. And on water, it floats, somewhat like a coracle.

The shape is something like a cross between a coracle and a wheelbarrow shaped rickshaw, and the whole thing is made from either carbon fibre or glass fibre, with steel or alloy struts and tubes. The wheels come off easily, and no jack is required, as you can simply walk the shape over onto the "roof" due to the progressive curve of the bottom.

The power system uses powerful hub mounted motors for an electric drive system that can also be used for power generation, and the specially created wheels allow the motors to be used for wind power electrical generation, using variable vanes in the spoke sections, and the tubes to loft the wheel for better wind speeds. There is a deep cycle lead acid battery (though an electronically controlled lithium battery set would be better from all aspects except the sheer cost!) and this electrical power can be put back out via the hub motors as either an assist for steep inclines, or returned as an electrical brake system.

As regards the water drive system, I'm in two minds. Do we go for a separate screw propeller and driveshaft, or do we go with a "paddle steamer" design? The extra propeller is extra weight, and would require the addition of a rudder system, whilst the paddle wheels would allow turning without issue, but are less effective. However, I'm sure a paddle/rudder would be a useful and very much safer option to have in hand, in case of electrical failure, etc. The mast would be the usual tube arrangement, and the "sail" would be the wind turbine. This would generate power to drive the other motor. Neat, but as I say, it requires a separate prop drive. Another advantage of the prop and shaft would be to have a way to convert a small stream into a power source by dropping the prop in and driving the motor. This is likely to be better than using a wheel as a waterwheel, but this is still theory.

I also think that building in a UV water steriliser unit would be wise. You can never have enough clean drinking water, but water is very heavy! A modern high throughput UV system would be ideal. You can always store more (clean) water on the cart itself if you want.

Notice I've put no roof or anything like it on the drawing. That would be dependant on your area, I think. Something like the water-filled PVC pipe design Turtle mentioned earlier would be good, if somewhat heavy. Better, I think, would be a simple frame of light bamboo and a mosquito net and light fabric. The bamboo would be useful for other things, as would the net and fabric, without being as top-heavy as the water pipes. However, in the UK I'm never more than a few hundred feet from a rain-filled puddle. If you are in a desert environment, then the water pipes are probably a far better idea.

The only terrain I haven't really dealt with here is heavy mud. Dammed near impossible to do anything about that, though. We spent two hours pulling the mini digger out the field the other week as it rained hard overnight and the ground turned to a quagmire. The Landrover simply span it's wheels, and we ended up getting the farmer's twin forked lifting thing out to help drag it up. I figure on a fairly flat field, the cart could be part-powered part-dragged. Beyond that? I've no real idea. If you cannot stand and walk and the tracked vehicles are sinking, then you might be better simply making camp!

Enough! Here is the scan.