Riddles

[modest]

"If I ask someone from a different tribe, which direction would they indicate leads to survival?"

Do the opposite of the direction indicated.

Moontanman had an interesting variation on that riddle:

Originally Posted by Moontanman

How about this one.

You are in a room with three gods, one is the god of truth, one is the god of lies and the other is the god of truth and lies. The god of truth only tells the truth, the god of lies only tells lies and the god of both only tells a lie or the truth at random. They can only answer in a language known only to them and they can only answer yes and no, ya and da in their language but you don't know what either word means. how can you ask them only three questions (total) to find out which one is which?

~modest

[freeztar]

Originally Posted by modest

An airplane. Or, better yet, a rocket. Does he have a fully fueled and ready to launch Saturn 5 rocket available? Or, how about a transporter? That would transport you at the speed of light being instantaneous from the stranded islander's perspective. But, wait a minute, when you say "What is the quickest way for him to get off the island?" from whose frame of reference are we calculating this? If the transporter somehow used quantum tunneling then perhaps the trip could be made instantaneous from earth's frame. Then again.... if the islander is allowed to go faster than the speed of light then he/she could go back in time making the quickest way to get off the island not to go there in the first place!

Hummm....

Ok, I'm gonna say "time travel" as my final answer. We'll have to break some laws of physics to accomplish it, but with a time machine we'll have all the time we need for that.

~modest (worst riddler ever)

I was fishing for answers and I think you took the cake!

The answer was dial 911 on the mobile phone.

But I like the way y'all think.

[Michael Mooney]

Modest:

"If I ask someone from a different tribe, which direction would they indicate leads to survival?"

Do the opposite of the direction indicated.

Hey, that's a new one on me, but it works! Congratulations.

The answer I was fishing for was:
(Pointing to either trail): "If I were to ask you if this trail leads to the village, would you say 'yes'?"
M

[Michael Mooney]

As quoted by Modest:

Originally Posted by Moontanman View Post
How about this one.

You are in a room with three gods, one is the god of truth, one is the god of lies and the other is the god of truth and lies. The god of truth only tells the truth, the god of lies only tells lies and the god of both only tells a lie or the truth at random. They can only answer in a language known only to them and they can only answer yes and no, ya and da in their language but you don't know what either word means. how can you ask them only three questions (total) to find out which one is which?

I just sat by the river and worked this one out (I think) using the same double negative trick (as in mine) to snare the liar:

Question #1: "If I were to ask you all if you are gods, would you say 'yes?'"
(The three will give the same answer which will translate as "yes," given that the liar, as in my riddle, must lie about what he would have said, and switch hitter must give the same answer regardless of which hat he is wearing... and they are all gods.)
Say they all say "ya." This decodes the translation, whichever it is.

Q #2: "Are we all in a room?"
At least one, maybe two will give the word for "yes."
If just one, he is the truth teller. If two said "ya" it could be either.

Q #3:
(Addressed to whomever gave the
lie to Q #2, whether one or two gods.):
"Is that god, (or "is one of those those gods"... depending on whether one or two gods affirmed Q#2) ...a truth teller?"

Since we know that the answer in either case is the "yes" word, a "no" word will identify the liar and the third is , odd man out, the switcheroo.

Oopse! I'm reconstructing this as I go and the switch god could still go either way!
I'll have to give it some more thought. Meanwhile if
you wanna sort it out for us now Moontanman... or Modest, go ahead before I lose sleep over it!

Michael

[modest]

Originally Posted by Michael Mooney

Modest:


Hey, that's a new one on me, but it works! Congratulations.

The answer I was fishing for was:
(Pointing to either trail): "If I were to ask you if this trail leads to the village, would you say 'yes'?"
M

Cool.

Originally Posted by Michael Mooney

I just sat by the river and worked this one out (I think) using the same double negative trick (as in mine) to snare the liar:

Question #1: "If I were to ask you all if you are gods, would you say 'yes?'"
(The three will give the same answer which will translate as "yes," given that the liar, as in my riddle, must lie about what he would have said, and switch hitter must give the same answer regardless of which hat he is wearing... and they are all gods.)
Say they all say "ya." This decodes the translation, whichever it is.

Very clever. You could also ask "are you the god of truth" which would decode yes and no (at least 2 have to say "yes" to that question") and also could give you more information (if the god of truth and lies answers honestly then he would say "no").

~modest

[Michael Mooney]

Modest:

Very clever. You could also ask "are you the god of truth" which would decode yes and no (at least 2 have to say "yes" to that question") and also could give you more information (if the god of truth and lies answers honestly then he would say "no").

I don't think that question would decode "yes" and "no" because they all three could affirm it, i.e., the god of freedom (gof) (to lie or tell the truth ) could swing either way, as the latter is not concerned with perfect honesty or absolute dishonesty.

Of course, if it were a unanimous affirmation, the languages is decoded and what they all said means "yes" as in my Q#1.
But if the gof says the "no" word, he is identified, as the other two must answer affirmatively.
But these are alternative scenarios. And if the gof is identified, as above, then the other two must be distinguished. This is accomplished by my Q#2, "Are we in a room?"
The one who denies it then identifies himself as the god of lies (gol.)

So.... Seems the solution must be as follows:
(the god of truth = got.)
Q#1: (as mine above), "If I were to ask you all if you are gods would you say 'yes'"?" (All three must affirm and establish the translation.)
Q#2: (as yours above), "Are you the god of truth?"(Results as above.)
Q#3: (as mine above), " Are we in a room?" (The got affirms; the gol denies, and the third could go either way but is revealed by comparison with which answer he chose in Q#2. ... I think... (or is he?...)
I'm getting a headache.
Michael
Edited for misquote of my Q#1 and comment below.

This could use some clarification. That god of freedom, as usual, is confusing the logic of the situation!

[Michael Mooney]

Almost duplicate posts. ?? last deleted.
M

[modest]

Originally Posted by Michael Mooney

I don't think that question would decode "yes" and "no" because they all three could affirm it, i.e., the god of freedom (gof) (to lie or tell the truth ) could swing either way, as the latter is not concerned with perfect honesty or absolute dishonesty.

I don't follow what you said.

If you ask "Are you the god of truth" then the god of truth must answer yes and the god of lies must answer yes. The god of lies can't say "no" to "are you the god of truth?". That would be a truthful response and the god of lies doesn't give truthful responses.

If you ask a question and you know that at least two will answer a certain way then that decodes yes / no. If you ask something and you know that at least 2 will answer "yes" then the majority of responses to that question (either ya or da) will mean yes.

Originally Posted by Michael Mooney

Q#1: (as mine above), "If I were to ask you all if you are gods would you say 'yes'"?" (All three must affirm and establish the translation.)
Q#2: (as yours above), "Are you the god of truth?"(Results as above.)
Q#3: (as mine above), " Are we in a room?" (The got affirms; the gol denies, and the third could go either way but is revealed by comparison with which answer he chose in Q#2. ... I think... (or is he?...)

If they all answer yes to Q1 and Q2 then Q3 would either definitivly give you the god of truth (if the responses are two nos and 1 yes) or the god of lies (if the responses are two yeses and 1 no). Not quite there.

~modest

[Michael Mooney]

Originally Posted by modest

I don't follow what you said.

If you ask "Are you the god of truth" then the god of truth must answer yes and the god of lies must answer yes. The god of lies can't say "no" to "are you the god of truth?". That would be a truthful response and the god of lies doesn't give truthful responses.

If you ask a question and you know that at least two will answer a certain way then that decodes yes / no. If you ask something and you know that at least 2 will answer "yes" then the majority of responses to that question (either ya or da) will mean yes.

If they all answer yes to Q1 and Q2 then Q3 would either definitivly give you the god of truth (if the responses are two nos and 1 yes) or the god of lies (if the responses are two yeses and 1 no). Not quite there.

~modest

I see what you mean that two known answers accomplish the translation of ya and da to yes or no. And your last sentence makes good sense too.
I was making it too complex, being a bit too "convoluted" some folks tell me.
Anyway... good brain exercise. Thanks.
Michael