Fuel prices...

[Boerseun]

So what gives with the price of fuel?

It keeps on rising and rising, with no end in sight! Is it really trouble in the Middle East? If so, then oil supply prices would rocket to such an extent that oil companies won't have to pay this newfangled 'profiteering tax', simply because they're not profiteering, they're just battling with rising prices like the rest of us. But no, they have made so much profit on the back of the rising oil price that it justifies an additional tax.

So what's the actual story? Have we passed Hubbert's Peak? Is there any hope in sight for lowered prices? Or are we being sucked dry by Big Oil?

[Racoon]

Originally Posted by Boerseun

So what gives with the price of fuel?

So what's the actual story? Have we passed Hubbert's Peak? Is there any hope in sight for lowered prices? Or are we being sucked dry by Big Oil?

I think you already know the answer to that.
They can charge what they want, within the high spectrum of reasoning.
Its simple supply/demand economics.

Yes, we are going to be bled dry. As economies in India and China expand and modernize, they will be competing for the same resource. If we, in the West, are willing to pay more, then we will continue to get the Fuel...

The good thing is that this will furiously spur on Alternatives, and we are beginning to see real application of those alternatives and hopefully soon, actual implementation.

Whats the Big Mac index at??

Profits above all else,
Rac

[Mercedes Benzene]

It's just the stupid oil companies.
In fact, the three largest companies in the world (based on annual revenue) are:
Royal Dutch Shell Ltd.
Exxon Mobile Corp.
BP
...in that order.

THE TOP 3 LARGEST COMPANIES IN THE WORLD ARE OIL COMPANIES.

They are the ultimate monopoly giants in the global business realm, and it's their fault for jacking up the cost of gas beyond what it actually should be.
Cheers to big business!

[Buffy]

Evil oil companies....sorta. Actually, the thing is that there's the commodities markets in the middle: while the oil companies can do things to manipulate the scarcity (mostly of refined gas: remember that most of the oil in the ground is controlled (at least by proxy) by nationalized producers), the big run up has *everything* to do with speculators looking at the tight production capacity, war, threat of war, crazy dictators, and putting them *together* to think that their petroleum futures will be worth more tomorrow.

Its a lemming mentality though, so its self-reinforcing trend actually helps create a bubble. Its pretty clear that there's still excess capacity, but their betting on Israel invading Syria, or Iran setting off a nuke or Chavez locking up Venezuelan oil, or lots of other relatively remote scenarios, that *could* make them rich. The down side is if there are cracks in this "conventional wisdom" we'll see a crash. I read a quote from the chairman of BP saying the price will come down significantly in the next couple of years, and that disregarding the "risk factors" oil is worth $40/bbl. With the speculators driving up the price of crude, the oil companies can laugh all the way to the bank because they are middlemen, safely taking a cut from everyone.

I do think there's ample evidence that they are manipulating the supply of *refined* gas, through mechanisms that are "legal" (putting refineries in maintenance at exactly the wrong time). In addition, I don't believe there's a "conspiracy" or "collusion", because if you have a small enough number of players in a market, it is to their advantage not to be predatory, and therefore they will simply "do the right thing" (for themselves!) without *any* need for explicit conspiracy....*Any* volitility in the price of crude means fast rises and slow falls of refined petroleum, so the oil companies don't need (indeed don't want *because* it brings demands for windfall profits taxes) crude at $70/bbl...

Crudely efficient markets,
Buffy

[Michaelangelica]

Originally Posted by Boerseun

So what gives with the price of fuel?

It keeps on rising and rising, with no end in sight!

The truth is we have probably run out of oil and no one wants to tell us.

You now have to pump more water down the wells to get the oil up than is worth the effort.

Invest in hydrogen technology.

[Buffy]

Originally Posted by Michaelangelica

The truth is we have probably run out of oil and no one wants to tell us.

That depends on what the meaning of "run out" is. The best description I've ever heard to try to get the point across is that its like eating a bowl of cereal with a fork: it gets harder and harder to get the stuff out of the bottom of the bowl, but there's still lots there.

The main issue is what is called Peak Oil. Malthusians of every stripe are always predicting the "end of the world," but like the cereal in the bowl, you can get it, you just may have to work harder. You may also find another box of cereal to refill the bowl. While most experts do not *expect* there to be huge Saudi-size deposits left to be found, there's probably more than will be necessary for most of us to die before the internal combustion engine disappears. There are also some very unusual sources of non-petroleum fossil fuels lying around like methane hydrates found on the ocean floor.

Of course we have a whole thread on the tar fields in places like Canada which are traditional crude oil, albeit in a form that is only worthwhile when the price of crude rises above $40/bbl (and less over time as the investment in learning how to exploit it is amortized), and there's an unbelievable amount of this stuff.

So B is right: there's not really a good excuse for the crazy price of gas.

All I can say is that the really smart money is moving from oil to tulips.

Modern Popular Delusions,
Buffy

[KickAssClown]

I will point out a major player in the growing price.

It is simply the laws of supply and demand.

As oil consumption grows (at an alarming rate, I would like to find the info again but I believe it was like doubled consumption per decade.), and with the industrialization of several major players, who will over take the world's economic powers, namely India and China, the consumption rates are just going to leap either geometrically, or expodentially.

At the same time, the number of new sources being discovered, decrease, and the ammount of worth while oil shrinks.

Our Supply to Demand ratio greatly begins to sag towards one side.

I predict that our oil reserves, world wide, will exhaust in or before 2020. Luckily that will also be our level out point, roughly, where world-wide population should go into decline.

We are sucking through the straw, and the cup is only half full, with more people sticking their straws into the cup...

[Michaelangelica]

Originally Posted by Buffy

That depends on what the meaning of "run out" is. , you just may have to work harder. You may also find another box of cereal to refill the bowl.
around like methane hydrates found on the ocean floor.

Of course we have a whole thread on the tar fields in places like Canada which are traditional crude oil, albeit in a form that is only worthwhile when the price of crude rises above $40/bbl (and less over time as the investment in learning how to exploit it is amortized), and there's an unbelievable amount of this stuff.

So B is right: there's not really a good excuse for the crazy price of gas.

All I can say is that the really smart money is moving from oil to tulips.

Modern Popular Delusions,
Buffy

I just bought some end of season Tulips for $2 a packet rare, double yellow.
How do I get them into the gas tank?

Seriously, you are right Buffy.
The half -life of many oil fields is fast approaching

The Canadian tar fields are new to me. Isn't the price already over $40 a barrel? Tell me more.

Australia has a lot of natural gas but it is taxed (38c excise a litre +10%GST) just the same as petrol. We have some oil reserves (different oil, not suitable for petrol) and some yet to be exploited near Timor.

I can't understand why everyone is not more into bio-fuels.??

Leadership from Governments seems to be as rare as new oil fields.

[Jay-qu]

I think we pay something like 30cents of tax per liter.. rediculous, prices just bordering on $1.40

[Michaelangelica]

This is an interesting site
http://www.abc.net.au/science/expert...il/default.htm

Also Shaking out the last drops in the barel
http://www.abc.net.au/science/news/stories/s1674474.htm