What is the point of this forum?

[KickAssClown]

I noted that fallacies are one of the major points in the rules, and debate style is lightly touched upon in many places, but I have to ask.

What is the purpose of hypography?

Are we trying to persuade one another from one point of view? If that is the main focus, then I would have to categorize hypography as a political forum, and not a scientific forum.

If we are trying to inform one another, objectively, and dispassionately of the facts, through proposition, argument, and counter-argument, discussion, and conclusions, then I would have to categorize hypography as a scientific and/or philosophical forum.

If we are trying to explore the meaning of our arguments, and the language that we communicate with, the rules therein. Then I would categorize this as a Lingustics and/or Philosophy forum.

Those are the Three Triviums of Liberal arts.

Simplified thier implicit aims are:
Persuasion (Rhetoric)
Information (Dialectic)
Exploration (Grammar)

So What would you say the purpose of Hypography is? The policies of the site shape the content therein. So to me it is non-trivial to clearly know what the context, and intented policy of the site is.

Personally, I see hypography as supporting a dialectic style. That is not to say that it doesn't support the other two, but it would seem to me from existing explicit policy that the focus is on informative converstation.

Just wondering what other people's view on this is.

[Buffy]

So what's yer point?

Seriously, does it have to have a point or a purpose?

I argue that it is Rhetoric, Dialectic and Grammar all rolled into one, and would not be what it is without all three.

Its also an evolutionary experiment that is in many ways radically different today than when I joined a couple of years ago. That may be good or bad depending upon one's point of view, but change is definitely its hallmark.

[Buffy puts on Creative Director hat on]"It wants to be Blue."

That is, its the sum of its parts, and despite what some may think, its not really "controlled," it "is" and its "happening."

That's not as existential as it sounds.

Science is its core "theme" but the "scope" of the term "Science" is evolving.

Discussion is its medium, but this general intent is bent in widely divergent directions based on all participants, not just the mods.

YOU ARE HYPOGRAPHY.

We might have our own individual views of what it *should be*, but it is what it is. We can influence it, but none of us can "make it something." To this extent, it is a society, and society has its stratifications and rules, but again, those are endlessly evolving.

Victims of their home-made monsters,
Buffy

[Jay-qu]

Its here for entertainment and information, everyone will take something different from it.

[Michaelangelica]

Originally Posted by KickAssClown

What is the purpose of hypography?

1. Waste time
(a little more productive than playing games -which is done too)

2. To find other Geeks on the planet that share similar interests in bizarre topics like Terra preta etc.

3. To celebrate Geekdom.

4. To have useless arguments with people who don't acknowledge the fact that you know the TRUTH !

5. Swap silliness.(eg Quality jokes and Great Words)

6. Share interesting tit bits picked up on the web.(articles etc, sources for things like sunlight reflectors)

7. To force you to put your ideas in a rational, logical clear way; when normally your thought process are bizarre.

8 To make you explore the web, local library etc so you won't be shown up to be the idiot you are (EG Darwin Re-Visited)

9. To share breaking science news ( eg Neanderthals etc)

10. To share a sense of wonder at the complexity of the word and other people's brains
and finally to make a few friends.

Is 10 enough? I could go on.

michael

[KickAssClown]

Like I've said, even if you acknowledge it or not, the rules of the system, as long as they are enforced by agents of the system (and here they are), shape the behaviors of the players of the game.

Take business for example. The goal of the game as a rule, not exception, is to make profit. The rules are imposed from two directions, within, and without. Business is regulated by outside agencies, and regulated by inside agencies.

The policies a business develops and implements, is mutually dependent on the policies that act upon the business from outside.

If for instance the rules of the forum were not enforced by either the active agents of the forum, then the population of disruptive agents would more than likely be much larger. That is the rules of the forum discourage certain types of people from participating. This is not just enforced by the inside agents (staff) but by the outside agents (other users). As the rules of the forum form a social contract that the majority of parties concearned are interested in maintaining.

So true I am Hypography, as is any other person who hangs out around here. However I lack the authority to myself, inact policies. I can simply inquire into the nature, and intent of current policies. As you say, Buffy, it is an evolving system.

If ideas fall out of discussions of this nature, that may or may not prompt alterations to existing policy, then so be it. Hypography evolves and becomes something from what it is. If not, oh well. It is only a matter of time before it becomes something from what it is. Such is the nature of evolution, imperfection, , and perfection.

I am interested to see what all is thought of the actions taken and written here at Hypography. As I see tremendous potential for what Hypography is and could be.

[Buffy]

Are you sure you don't have a point you're trying to make, KAC?

Originally Posted by KickAssClown

If for instance the rules of the forum were not enforced by either the active agents of the forum, then the population of disruptive agents would more than likely be much larger. That is the rules of the forum discourage certain types of people from participating. This is not just enforced by the inside agents (staff) but by the outside agents (other users). As the rules of the forum form a social contract that the majority of parties concearned are interested in maintaining.

...and in open societies, reining in the anarchists (traditional definition, not the direct democracy kind I know you advocate), can be very difficult. Call it the tyranny of the majority if you wish, but its common in all kinds of social organizations ("we're not a government, we're a club, man!"). Its important to note that social groupings develop equilibrium points based on the participant's (and as you point out *all* of them, not just the "inside agents") attitudes.

Originally Posted by KickAssClown

I am interested to see what all is thought of the actions taken and written here at Hypography.

"Actions?" What are "actions?" I think speech is an action: a powerful one that can be used for great good or tremendous evil even in the hands of "unempowered" individuals, especially in an open society. Could you expound a bit on how you think "actions" are relevant to defining the "purpose" of the forum? Sounds like two different topics to me, but I'm probably missing something here.

Originally Posted by KickAssClown

As I see tremendous potential for what Hypography is and could be.

Me too! In fact, I don't think its just potential, its already here!

Come and see the violence inherent in the system,
Buffy

[Tormod]

Originally Posted by KickAssClown

What is the purpose of hypography?
...
Personally, I see hypography as supporting a dialectic style. That is not to say that it doesn't support the other two, but it would seem to me from existing explicit policy that the focus is on informative converstation

I see both informative (news, and people posting their views) and dialectic (people asking questions and debating them).

However, we see a lot of people with specific agendas who are unwilling to discuss them, but only want input on their own POVs and are offended when people actually try to discuss them.

The original Hypography website did not even include a forum. When it was launched it consisted only of the science portal at http://www.hypography.com/ - the forums were added as an afterthought two years later! So the original intent was to be a resource where everyone could learn about science and new discoveries, take science trivia quizzes and explore the web (using our link collection as the starting point).

I think that the moment the forum came to Hypography, it began to shape itself. OVer the years it has grown much larger than the sum of it's parts. I think it is inevitable that it will eventually have to cover more than only science and technology in the future. We tried to start an off-topic forum for everything else (PostMagnet) but it has failed largely because, well, our members like to hang out here rather than there.

[InfiniteNow]

Tis something different to us all. Perhaps my definition or parameters of the purpose of Hypography is not the same as yours, but doesn't make either of our positions invalid.

[CraigD]

Originally Posted by KickAssClown

What is the purpose of hypography?

I’ve always considered the purpose of hypography to be “the promotion of Science” – a vague “mission statement” not, to my knowledge, explicitly written anywhere, but one I’ve trumpeted about as if it’s “official”. The “official” purpose of these forums are, as best I can tell, given by a single sentence on the rules page: “This is a forum for discussing science and technology.” The next sentence, I think, addresses how this is to be done: “Basically, we welcome anything that falls within these realms.”

If I had to categorize the “management style” at hypography, I’d say if follows the KISS model (“Keep It Simple, Stupid!”, not “Knights In Satan’s Service”, as the occasionally religiously devout poster seems to believe ).

Those are the Three Triviums of Liberal arts.

Simplified thier implicit aims are:
Persuasion (Rhetoric)
Information (Dialectic)
Exploration (Grammar)

Thanks for reminding me of these – I’ve not heard them mentioned in decades! I’m grammar nazi enough to note that these should not be called “the three triviums” (which would actually mean literally 3 places where 3 roads meet), but simply “the trivium”.

As I understand them, the classical liberal arts consisted of the trivium - grammar, logic, and rhetoric – followed by the quadrivium - arithmetic, geometry, music, and astronomy – followed by philosophy and theology. This 3-step structure established the Batchelor/Master/Doctor structure of degree programs seen to this day in most colleges. Implicit in the classical art of grammar is that it must be in a common language, which was when the term “trivium” was coined, Latin.

A quirky anachronism at my high school was that it actually used these terms, even though it had dropped its Latin requirement long before I got there.